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  • #46
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    In all fairness, I have often wondered if the 3/4 was just a sloppy written 3-4, meaning the graffiti was much larger. Though the journalist at the inquest must have heard the testimony, and "three-quarters" doesn't sound anything like "three to four", so I guess that theory falls at the first hurdle.
    It's a fair thought. But the Daily News records Halse's description of the writing as "The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."
    So I suspect your last line is correct.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by milchmanuk View Post

      your very knowledgeable. which i really like.
      Well, thankyou for that.
      I just wish I knew the answers to the important stuff


      i use a spell correct to type my fingers also keep missing.i was going to choose " witch" which is a bit cheesy.
      My spelling has got worse over the years, I put that down to age.

      but suspects , seeing were never going to know, who would be yours. wickerman .
      also the cosh word. on the street at one time in the past coshing someone could also druging them.
      The man I suspect had something to do with these murders is the one who assaulted those two women Sarah Lewis & Mrs Kennedy on the Wednesday night before Kelly's murder. He was seen standing outside the Britannia pub around 3:00am on that very morning. And, Mrs Kennedy said she saw Kelly talking to him, but this was after her liaison with Astrakan.
      I suspect it was the same character seen by PC Smith in Berner St., whom we refer to as Parcel-man.
      There's no name to go on, only that this man had unusual eyes (no eyelashes?), and walked with a limp, described by witnesses as "an awkward gait".
      Nothing too exciting.

      Regards, Jon S.

      Comment


      • #48
        Hi,
        As I have stated before on my GSG concluscon thread, I am convinced it was written by the Killer.

        It was written down low on the wall so as when read it would put the rag in eye line, just in case it was missed.

        It had to be in small writing to fit in the sentences, otherwise it would have been one word per line.

        Regards.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

          hi george
          the dude was murdering and extracting internal organs from women in the dark in minutes with the threat of being caught red handed for murder. writing the gsg would have been peanuts to him.
          Thank you Abby, I woke to find your post and thought yup thats just about what I would have responded . A perverbial "walk in the park"for our boy jack
          'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by spyglass View Post
            Hi,
            As I have stated before on my GSG concluscon thread, I am convinced it was written by the Killer.

            It was written down low on the wall so as when read it would put the rag in eye line, just in case it was missed.

            It had to be in small writing to fit in the sentences, otherwise it would have been one word per line.

            Regards.
            I'm wondering what you mean by "low"?
            Regards, Jon S.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

              It's a fair thought. But the Daily News records Halse's description of the writing as "The capitals would be under an inch high, and italics in proportion."
              So I suspect your last line is correct.
              Overlooked that one, thanks Joshua.

              I have tried to write with tailor's chalk, that's a hopeless endeavor, the chalk comes disk shaped, you can't write with it. I don't know if it came that shape in the 19th century. I also tried to write a few capitals at 3/4" height with a regular stick of chalk - some came out readable but the italics (lower-case?) were not readable.
              There's something here that we are missing.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                Overlooked that one, thanks Joshua.

                I have tried to write with tailor's chalk, that's a hopeless endeavor, the chalk comes disk shaped, you can't write with it. I don't know if it came that shape in the 19th century. I also tried to write a few capitals at 3/4" height with a regular stick of chalk - some came out readable but the italics (lower-case?) were not readable.
                There's something here that we are missing.
                Yeah, it's designed for drawing straight lines I think rather than tight curves. I believe it came in sticks though back in the day, though they needed to be sharpened to a point. But then regular blackboard chalk can also be pointy and writes reasonably, so no need for specifically tailor's chalk I'd say.
                It's as well to point out that the graffito was written on painted rather than bare brick, which I think would have aided legibility.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Hi Wickerman,

                  Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  ...
                  The man I suspect had something to do with these murders is the one who assaulted those two women Sarah Lewis & Mrs Kennedy on the Wednesday night before Kelly's murder. He was seen standing outside the Britannia pub around 3:00am on that very morning. And, Mrs Kennedy said she saw Kelly talking to him, but this was after her liaison with Astrakan.
                  I suspect it was the same character seen by PC Smith in Berner St., whom we refer to as Parcel-man.
                  There's no name to go on, only that this man had unusual eyes (no eyelashes?), and walked with a limp, described by witnesses as "an awkward gait".
                  Nothing too exciting.
                  This is the fellow sometimes referred to as the "Bethnal Green Botherer" isn't it? He's an interesting character, and it would be very interesting if more could be uncovered as to who he was so he could be researched properly.

                  And interestingly, "an awkward gait" could be misconstrued as being intoxicated, which might allow for BGB = BS from Schwartz's statement too, though it's possible the descriptions differ enough in other ways to make that less compelling. But as witness descriptions can be quite far off the mark, one might not want to dismiss the possibility entirely.

                  Anyway, he's one of those people that potentially shows up in a few statements that does raise one's curiosity. Who knows, maybe one day a document will surface (the lost suspect file perhaps?) that could put a name to him, and then, as they say, the game will be afoot.

                  - Jeff

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
                    Hi Wickerman,



                    This is the fellow sometimes referred to as the "Bethnal Green Botherer" isn't it? He's an interesting character, and it would be very interesting if more could be uncovered as to who he was so he could be researched properly.

                    And interestingly, "an awkward gait" could be misconstrued as being intoxicated, which might allow for BGB = BS from Schwartz's statement too, though it's possible the descriptions differ enough in other ways to make that less compelling. But as witness descriptions can be quite far off the mark, one might not want to dismiss the possibility entirely.

                    Anyway, he's one of those people that potentially shows up in a few statements that does raise one's curiosity. Who knows, maybe one day a document will surface (the lost suspect file perhaps?) that could put a name to him, and then, as they say, the game will be afoot.

                    - Jeff
                    hi jeff
                    yes ive always been intrigued by this character. he really reminds me of marshalls man.."you would say anything but your prayers".
                    BGB..."something the ladys dont like".

                    That jokey taunting yet somewhat ominous tone.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
                      Hi Wickerman,



                      This is the fellow sometimes referred to as the "Bethnal Green Botherer" isn't it? He's an interesting character, and it would be very interesting if more could be uncovered as to who he was so he could be researched properly.

                      And interestingly, "an awkward gait" could be misconstrued as being intoxicated, which might allow for BGB = BS from Schwartz's statement too, though it's possible the descriptions differ enough in other ways to make that less compelling. But as witness descriptions can be quite far off the mark, one might not want to dismiss the possibility entirely.

                      Anyway, he's one of those people that potentially shows up in a few statements that does raise one's curiosity. Who knows, maybe one day a document will surface (the lost suspect file perhaps?) that could put a name to him, and then, as they say, the game will be afoot.

                      - Jeff
                      Hi Jeff.

                      I wrote "assaulted", I meant "accosted", but yes, he has been known as the Bethnal Green Botherer. Odd that he should appear at the end of the street talking to Kelly moments before she is murdered.

                      Yes Jeff, I picked up on the stagger of BS-man that could be described as "an awkward gait", it's just that I would have to dismiss Parcel-man & Packers-man, which I take to be mutually supportive as regards evidence.

                      Bowyer saw a stranger talking to Kelly on the Wednesday, he had "peculiar eyes", respectably dressed with collar & cuffs, similar to the man described by Packer. (Western Mail, 12 Nov.)
                      The man with Stride about 11:00pm at the Bricklayer's Arms, was said to have "rather weak eyes", I take Parcel-man seen by PC Smith, and Packer's man, as all the same individual.
                      Then there's the man seen by Thimbleby at 6:00am on the morning of the Chapman murder, running from Hanbury to Brick Lane, he had a "peculiar gait", and was about 30 yrs old.
                      Without any names these could all be different individuals, but there are similarities in these various descriptions that mean we shouldn't easily dismiss the possibility they could be the same man.
                      Regards, Jon S.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                        I'm wondering what you mean by "low"?
                        It wasnt written at eye level, more waist height downwards.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Written by someone ~ 5"3".

                          Same height as the man Elizabeth Long saw talking to Annie Chapman.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                            Hi Jeff.

                            I wrote "assaulted", I meant "accosted", but yes, he has been known as the Bethnal Green Botherer. Odd that he should appear at the end of the street talking to Kelly moments before she is murdered.

                            Yes Jeff, I picked up on the stagger of BS-man that could be described as "an awkward gait", it's just that I would have to dismiss Parcel-man & Packers-man, which I take to be mutually supportive as regards evidence.

                            Bowyer saw a stranger talking to Kelly on the Wednesday, he had "peculiar eyes", respectably dressed with collar & cuffs, similar to the man described by Packer. (Western Mail, 12 Nov.)
                            The man with Stride about 11:00pm at the Bricklayer's Arms, was said to have "rather weak eyes", I take Parcel-man seen by PC Smith, and Packer's man, as all the same individual.
                            Then there's the man seen by Thimbleby at 6:00am on the morning of the Chapman murder, running from Hanbury to Brick Lane, he had a "peculiar gait", and was about 30 yrs old.
                            Without any names these could all be different individuals, but there are similarities in these various descriptions that mean we shouldn't easily dismiss the possibility they could be the same man.
                            Hi Wickerman,

                            The man who accosted Sarah Lewis and her friend or sister was seen talking to two women by a Mrs. Kennedy(probably Lewis using a pseudonym) as she passed the Brittania on the way to the Keyler's on the night Kelly was murdered. She does not say the women was Kelly- just that she was hatless. You are taking Walter Dew's comments that Kelly was often hatless adding 2 +2 and getting 5. Strange that there is no record of the other woman being found or even attempts by Police to trace her if she was with Kelly so close to her death. We cannot know this person was Kelly. It may have been. The liklihood is that it was not.

                            This Bethnal Green character seems to be someone who liked to approach women who were in pairs. Lewis and her companion, then the hatless women and hers. He is interesting but seems to be someone using a completely different approach to the Ripper. He may have just been s local nuisance.

                            Bowyer at the Inquest did not mention the Wednesday night incident but said he had last seen her on Wednesday afternoon when he had spoken to her in the Court. I think we can dismiss the press report.

                            The really big problem for us is we have so little to go on. There were thousands of pages of Ripper enquiries etc that we will never see. For me the best sightings of the Ripper are B.S man and A.K man. If these were different people then for me A.K man is without any doubt the prime suspect.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by DJA View Post
                              Written by someone ~ 5"3".

                              Same height as the man Elizabeth Long saw talking to Annie Chapman.
                              So, we're looking for a short fella, habitué of the area, may have had cause to have a piece of chalk on him (like a lecturer, for example), but who also was so adept at surgery, he could work in darkness, "as if by feel"? Seems a long shot ticking those boxes... especially if said individual was also a specialist in kidneys.
                              Thems the Vagaries.....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                                Hi Jeff.

                                I wrote "assaulted", I meant "accosted", but yes, he has been known as the Bethnal Green Botherer. Odd that he should appear at the end of the street talking to Kelly moments before she is murdered.

                                Yes Jeff, I picked up on the stagger of BS-man that could be described as "an awkward gait", it's just that I would have to dismiss Parcel-man & Packers-man, which I take to be mutually supportive as regards evidence.

                                Bowyer saw a stranger talking to Kelly on the Wednesday, he had "peculiar eyes", respectably dressed with collar & cuffs, similar to the man described by Packer. (Western Mail, 12 Nov.)
                                The man with Stride about 11:00pm at the Bricklayer's Arms, was said to have "rather weak eyes", I take Parcel-man seen by PC Smith, and Packer's man, as all the same individual.
                                Then there's the man seen by Thimbleby at 6:00am on the morning of the Chapman murder, running from Hanbury to Brick Lane, he had a "peculiar gait", and was about 30 yrs old.
                                Without any names these could all be different individuals, but there are similarities in these various descriptions that mean we shouldn't easily dismiss the possibility they could be the same man.
                                Hi Jon,

                                Then there is the man reported by Daily telegraph 6 Oct:
                                It is a remarkable circumstance - much more than an ordinary coincidence - that the description of the supposed murderer given by Packer was yesterday confirmed by another man who, without being aware of the fact, also chose from the sketches the one which had been already selected by Packer. Search for an individual answering to the description above detailed, but having a small moustache and wearing a black deerstalker felt hat, instead of a soft one, has been made by the police in Whitechapel ever since Saturday, Sept. 1, the day following the Buck's-row tragedy. Information was tendered at the King David's-lane Police Station, at about that time, by a dairyman who has a place of business in Little Turner-street, Commercial-road. It will be recollected that on Saturday, Sept. 1, a desperate assault was reported to have been committed near to the music-hall in Cambridge-heath-road, a man having seized a woman by the throat and dragged her down a court, where he was joined by a gang, one of whom laid a knife across the woman's throat, remarking "we will serve you as we did the others." The particulars of this affair were subsequently stated to be untrue; but the milkman has reason to suppose that the outrage was actually perpetrated, and he suspects that the murderer of Mary Ann Nicholls in Buck's-row had something to do with it. At any rate, upon that Saturday night, at five minutes to eleven o'clock, a man corresponding with the description given by Packer of the individual who purchased the grapes in Berner-street, called at the shop, which is on the left of a covered yard, usually occupied by barrows, which are let out on hire. He was in a hurry, and he asked for a pennyworth of milk, with which he was served, and he drank it down at a gulp. Asking permission to go into the yard or shed, he went there, but the dairyman caught a glimpse of something white, and, having suspicions, he rejoined the man in the shed, and was surprised to observe that he had covered up his trousers with a pair of white over-alls, such as engineers wear. The man had a staring look, and appeared greatly agitated. He made a movement forward, and the brim of his hard felt hat struck the dairyman, who is therefore sure of the kind that he was wearing. In a hurried manner the stranger took out of a black shiny bag, which was on the ground, a white jacket and rapidly put it on, completely hiding his cutaway black coat, remarking meanwhile, "It's a dreadful murder, isn't it?" although the subject had not been previously mentioned. Without making a pause the suspicious person caught up his bag, which was still open, and rushed into the street, towards Shadwell, saying, "I think I've got a clue!" The matter was reported to the police, and although strict watch has been maintained for the reappearance of the man he has not been seen in the street since. He is said to have had a dark complexion, such as a seafaring man acquires. The style of collar that he was then wearing was of the turn-down pattern. He had no marked American accent, and his general appearance was that of a clerk or student whose beard had been allowed three days' growth. His hair was dark, and his eyes large and staring. The portrait gives, according to the statement of the witness, a good approximate idea of his look. The bag carried by the young man, whose age the dairyman places at twenty-eight, is stated to have been provided with a lock at the top, near the handle, and was made, as stated, of a black glistening material.

                                Here are reports of a hard felt deerstalker hat as described by PC Smith, the staring eyes and the black shiny bag. I wonder what Leon Goldstein looked like?

                                Best regards, George
                                “But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
                                "Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
                                "How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
                                "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”

                                ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

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