writing on the wall

[Wickerman]

I should have posted this pic. it shows the whole block of buildings.

[Wickerman]

The 1889 Police Code (in effect in 1888), page 28, under Beats, includes three requirements.
The third requirement is divided into seven (a - g) rules, the sentence ends with..."the following rules may be advantageously borne in mind by constables on the beat":-

"(g) To see that doors, windows, gratings, cellar-flaps, fan-lights, and places through which a thief might enter, or obtain access, are not left open".

It's my view that if PC Long was doing his job right he could not possibly have missed the rag had it been there at 2:20 (or 1:50 for that matter), he would have had to pretty much step over it to try the door.

[Wickerman]

obviously / but it does highlights the observations with the rag on the floor. also.the p.c. Long could not of missed it if he shined his bull lamp in there.

Part of a beat constable's duty was the check all doors & windows that open onto the street.
Just inside that entry was a door, it would be required that he step inside the entry to try the door to see if it was secure (locked).

The internal door can be seen better in this shot here:

[Wickerman]

That photo might be of the building " next door ", not where the GSG was found.

That's true, its the end unit of the block of four buildings, No.132-143. They are all built the same, also the Ordnance Survey map shows the same feature (the pit?) ran across the front and rear of all four buildings.

[Trevor Marriott]

or in fact if it is accpted that the killer did not write the graffiti why wait so long before discarading the apron piece when there were plenty of places en route from Mitre Square?

Hello Trevor,

His original intent might have been to take the apron as a trophy but as the adrenaline wore off, and more rational thinking returned, he may have decided it was simply too dangerous to have it in his possession and so abandoned it where he did.

c.d.

But I say again, why wait so long, every minute spent carrying his knife and the apron piece was a potential minute leading to his capture.

But if that had been the case what happened to the organs? Again I am playing devils advocate in an effort to show posters how unlikey some of the explantions are that have been put forward by posters to explain away the negatives surrounding the apron piece and the alleged removal of the organs.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[milchmanuk]

Hi Trevor.

That picture with the railings isn't 108-119 Wentworth Dwellings.

some one here has already mentioned it,s probably the neighbor's house at closes?

[jerryd]

Hi Trevor.

That picture with the railings isn't 108-119 Wentworth Dwellings.

[c.d.]

or in fact if it is accpted that the killer did not write the graffiti why wait so long before discarading the apron piece when there were plenty of places en route from Mitre Square?

Hello Trevor,

His original intent might have been to take the apron as a trophy but as the adrenaline wore off, and more rational thinking returned, he may have decided it was simply too dangerous to have it in his possession and so abandoned it where he did.

c.d.

[Trevor Marriott]

After looking at the pictures and some of the reports as to where the apron was found. The way I see it is that he runs or strolls past the entrance and flings the apron into it, attempting to chuck as far in as possible for it not to be see. I think Long misses it on his first sweep pass as it is actually in the entrance. I dont think the graffiti is written by the killer.

From looking at the picture and I stand to be corrected that the railings show in the pic were there to prevent anyone falling into the cellar areas below. In which case playing devils advocate, why didnt the killer simply discard the apron piece over the railings,? or in fact if it is accpted that the killer did not write the graffiti why wait so long before discarading the apron piece when there were plenty of places en route from Mitre Square?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Losmandris]

But it works the other way too Trevor.
Right next to the entry was an open pit, surrounded by iron railings.
The railings can be seen here.


We had the same in our first house. As you can see in the photo the lower window at ground level is bricked up, so was ours. But my point here is that the pit is something like 4-5 ft deep, and likely collects whatever rubbish blows around. The organs may have been down in that pit, we have no mention of the police searching it. At the time the police theory seems to have been that the rag was only used to wipe his hands, so no police bothered to look for spilled organs.

If, the killer was carrying the organs in the piece of apron, as I always believed, and threw the bundle at the doorway as he ran passed, they may have spilled out as the bundle hit the wall/archway and ended up down in that hole.
It was not planted, it wasn't intentional, the bundle was thrown away into the doorway, in desperation as he may have seen an officer coming up the street. The fact there was some graffiti close by was irrelevant.

After looking at the pictures and some of the reports as to where the apron was found. The way I see it is that he runs or strolls past the entrance and flings the apron into it, attempting to chuck as far in as possible for it not to be see. I think Long misses it on his first sweep pass as it is actually in the entrance. I dont think the graffiti is written by the killer.

[Trevor Marriott]

No, I checked my facts on the other thread where this was discussed interminably, and am happy they pass scrutiny.

Cheers, George

Well let me point out something you clearly have been misled or you have mis-interpreted about and that is there is no evidence that an apron piece was found beside the body.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[GBinOz]

I think you need to check your facts

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

No, I checked my facts on the other thread where this was discussed interminably, and am happy they pass scrutiny.

Cheers, George

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

With all due respect, I disagree. I think the evidence shows that she was wearing the apron that night and it was not shown amongst her clothing because half of it was at Goulston St and the other half was lying BESIDE her body.

Cheers, George

I think you need to check your facts

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[GBinOz]

If you look at the list of her clothing and personal possessions you will see that an one piece of white apron is recorded among her possessions and there is no entry amongst her clothes that shows an apron

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor,

With all due respect, I disagree. I think the evidence shows that she was wearing the apron that night and it was not shown amongst her clothing because half of it was at Goulston St and the other half was lying BESIDE her body.

Cheers, George

[Trevor Marriott]

I would have thought that the medicos would have mentioned at some point if she was menstruating, perhaps it was and I've missed it, however Dr Brown did state that "no secretions of any kind were found on her thighs". If Catherine was bleeding at Goulston street she would have continued (even if only lightly) on the walk to Mitre Square and if she hadn't replaced her sanitary protection then menstrual blood would have been smeared on her inner thighs.
however you are correct Trevor that each must assess and evaluate the facts for themselves. I also think it's possible that she was carrying rather than wearing the apron, it is indeed a shame we do not know if she was wearing an apron or not when she left the police station.

Helen x

If she had have been bleeding ever so slighty which the description of the apron piece tends to support there should have been no external traces of blood after all that is the purpose of any sanitary device to absorb the blood the body is secreting. A consulstant gynecologist confirms that blood spotting is consistent with the menstrual process and would be more attributable to women who were malnourished.

As to the doctors not noticing whether or not she was menstruating I would suggest that any blood found on any parts of the body would have been attributed to the throat cutting and the abdominal mutilations. I doubt that they would have been looking for signs of menstruation and besides if she felt that process had finished when she deposited the piece and felt there was no need to replace it with the other piece she had in her possession.

If you look at the list of her clothing and personal possessions you will see that an one piece of white apron is recorded among her possessions and there is no entry amongst her clothes that shows an apron

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk