Was Mitre Square being watched that Double Event night?

[Busy Beaver]

Hi BB,

So Eddowes set out from Bishopsgate police station for Mitre Square at 1.00 am, thinking that the Ripper might be [still might be] there?

Is that what you're saying?

Regards,

Simon

No Simon, she went on the off chance- a spur of the moment thing. Surly she would know what the Ripper was capable of- if she suspected he was known to her. After all he had killed 2-3 times already. And if her going to the square had nothing at all to do with the Ripper, then it's a complete mystery.

[Monty]

And if her going to the square had nothing at all to do with the Ripper, then it's a complete mystery.

Not really. Not with the thimble.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Watkins and Harvey were pounding their (existing) beats in and out of the vicinity, Morris was busy sweeping up, and wasn't Pearce and his family asleep? Doesn't seem much like a stake-out to me. If they'd wanted to keep an eye on the square, I have expected them to have posted a more permanent, and alert, presence.

Morris expressed rage at the previous murders and said he wished one would happen where he could get involved, no-one knows whether Pearces family was there that night, there is no statement from his wife, and his window looked onto the very murder spot, Watkins and Harvey were already tasked that night with patrolling the square and there is no believeable story that has Marriot, Outram and Halse looking in alleys nearby. Why, no murder have ever been in the City. Did they think one might happen?

[Michael W Richards]

How many hours had she been in custody? She hadn’t planned to be arrested so can we really believe that someone kicked their heels in Mitre Square for hours on the off chance that Eddowes would turn up at some point?

They knew she would be released that night, and they were the first ones to know when she was.

[Monty]

They knew she would be released that night, and they were the first ones to know when she was.

Who knew?

Monty

[Monty]

Morris expressed rage at the previous murders and said he wished one would happen where he could get involved, no-one knows whether Pearces family was there that night, there is no statement from his wife, and his window looked onto the very murder spot, Watkins and Harvey were already tasked that night with patrolling the square and there is no believeable story that has Marriot, Outram and Halse looking in alleys nearby. Why, no murder have ever been in the City. Did they think one might happen?

PC Pearce gave evidence that he was in his home.

Halse, Marriott and Outram verify each other, as do others.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

How could Kate have had a pre-planned meeting in Mitre Square? Did she know she would be arrested at 8.30 pm and released from Bishopsgate police station at 1.00 am, and somehow rescheduled accordingly?

Also, do we know for a fact that the woman seen by Lawende and the woman arrested for drunkenness were one and the same person?

Ripperology insists they were the same person, but such insistence steadily carries less and less weight.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon. Its my suspicion that the people she met with in the afternoon plied her with alchohol to see how much she knew about the person she allegedly intended to name as the killer to the police. Maybe she set that up the previous evening. They may have set up midnight as a meeting time, (a fitting time for betrayals) but when they discovered she was in Bishopsgate since 8-8:30, they simply waited for her release which was inevitable that night. To your second point, nope,.. we dont. If it wasnt, then Lawende and Sailor Man also leave the stage as relevant players.

In no other murder investigation I recall reading about are ALL of the closest people to the crime current or ex police...7 of them.

[Michael W Richards]

Not really. Not with the thimble.

Monty

If thats a hint you believe she had a stitching engagement at 1:30am in a almost totally dark square Monty, Id feel inclined to disagree. She went the opposite way to a waiting bed and someone who claimed they lived as "man and wife", sleeping together almost every night. Seems like that Friday and Saturday were different though, as perhaps was her relationship with John.

Perhaps you just meant she carried her own mini shot glass.

[Michael W Richards]

Who knew?

Monty

Hutt for one.

[Michael W Richards]

PC Pearce gave evidence that he was in his home.

Halse, Marriott and Outram verify each other, as do others.

Monty

If I believe everything that everyone said in these cases Monty I might as well give it up. People said things that have been proven to be lies, fabrications and intentionally misleading. Why would those people admit to being part of a plan that left a woman dead?

[Monty]

If thats a hint you believe she had a stitching engagement at 1:30am in a almost totally dark square Monty, Id feel inclined to disagree. She went the opposite way to a waiting bed and someone who claimed they lived as "man and wife", sleeping together almost every night. Seems like that Friday and Saturday were different though, as perhaps was her relationship with John.

Perhaps you just meant she carried her own mini shot glass.

Thimble tapping.

Look it up. She required money.

Monty

[Monty]

Hutt for one.

Nope. Hutt had no authority to make that call, he merely tended to prisoners.

Only one policeman could make the call on if Eddowes was to be freed or held in custody and charged. That policeman was Station Sergeant Byfield.

Monty

[Monty]

If I believe everything that everyone said in these cases Monty I might as well give it up. People said things that have been proven to be lies, fabrications and intentionally misleading. Why would those people admit to being part of a plan that left a woman dead?

They appeared under oath in Coroners Court. And ran the risk of their conspiracy falling foul of the coroner and inquest jurors.

Do you think your views are within or beyond reason?

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Michael,

You need to keep a keen eye out for all those pesky policemen.

Eddowes allegedly told the Superintendent at the Mile End Casual Ward [ELO, 13th October] that she had "come back [from hopping in Kent] to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

As of the date Eddowes started out on her walk with John Kelly from Kent [27th September], no reward had yet been offered. Leather Apron had been absolved, and Jack had yet to make his debut.

But—

Shortly after the murder of Annie Chapman, on 21st September, the Sevenoaks Chronicle reported that "it is just possible that the police in their anxiety to unravel the mystery may have made some enquiries amongst Whitechapel people employed in the Kentish Hop gardens . . ."

So it is possible that Eddowes knew something.

She certainly wasn't a random victim of the "Ripper."

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

She alledgedly claimed she knew who the killer was and came back to claim the reward...yet didn’t.

Instead she she went to Mitre Square to confront the murderer rather than seek the support of the authorities...and claim that reward.

Monty