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Was Mitre Square being watched that Double Event night?

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  • I have always felt that Jack would have made his exit towards Aldgate then up WhiteChaple just blending into the early morning traffic before cutting north on Goulston.

    Giving Jack at least 5 minutes to travel before the alarm was sounded, how much distance could Jack cover? How many unsuspecting PCs and people would you pass in that amount of time? How many men in dark hats and dark coats with bloody hands are you going to pass out in the streets at 2:00 in the morning?

    Cate's 'hand on his chest' and 'hard against the shutters' with Annie. I think Jack was confident enough to walk around in broad gaslight, trophies and all.

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    • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post
      I think Jack was confident enough to walk around in broad gaslight, trophies and all.
      Sure he was confident, but was he reckless?
      If yes, then why the pause after the double event?
      If no, then what due diligence is involved?

      A 'no' answer means accepting he would have run the risk of arousing suspicion around soon to be murder sites (ironically).
      It also raises the question of a timepiece being used to accurately measure beat time-spans.
      That in turn would be suggestive of Jack's social class (unless he steals one).

      At the time, was there much curiosity as to how JtR was managing to do his "work" within the "rhythm of the beats"?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

        Insp. McWilliam was not convinced the woman Lawende saw was Eddowes. And, Lawende was not permitted to identify the body, only the clothes, which were "similar".
        I don't think Lawende saw the killer either.
        I wasn't aware that Lawende was not permitted to identify the body, so thanks for that factoid.

        Do you have a source for that? Do we know why he wasn't allowed to see the body? On the face of it, it seems odd to me.

        Martyn
        "The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out..."

        The Chemical Brothers

        "And they did!"

        Anon

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mpriestnall View Post


          Do you have a source for that? Do we know why he wasn't allowed to see the body? On the face of it, it seems odd to me.

          Martyn
          This is Lawende's Testimony from the Eddowes inquest.

          The Coroner: Were they talking? - The woman was standing with her face towards the man, and I only saw her back. She had one hand on his breast. He was the taller. She had on a black jacket and bonnet. I have seen the articles at the police-station, and believe them to be those the deceased was wearing.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post
            I have always felt that Jack would have made his exit towards Aldgate then up WhiteChaple just blending into the early morning traffic before cutting north on Goulston.

            Giving Jack at least 5 minutes to travel before the alarm was sounded, how much distance could Jack cover? How many unsuspecting PCs and people would you pass in that amount of time? How many men in dark hats and dark coats with bloody hands are you going to pass out in the streets at 2:00 in the morning?

            Cate's 'hand on his chest' and 'hard against the shutters' with Annie. I think Jack was confident enough to walk around in broad gaslight, trophies and all.
            I certainly think the killer left the scene going south down Mitre Street and onto Aldgate while possibly being seen by at least two oblivious PCs before the discovery of Catherine's body.

            PC Holland was pretty much removed from his beat on and around the south side of Aldgate High Street area so it would've been a clean run for the killer to briefly hide out around there undetected. The immediate search of the killer appears to have mostly been on the streets north of Aldgate High Street. It could explain the time delay between the murder and the killer passing through Goulston Street to place/drop the piece of apron. No-one other than the killer could possibly be in possession of the apron piece so they must have gone along that way at least once 40 minutes after the murder. The author of the graffiti is still an open question, though.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post

              This is Lawende's Testimony from the Eddowes inquest.

              The Coroner: Were they talking? - The woman was standing with her face towards the man, and I only saw her back. She had one hand on his breast. He was the taller. She had on a black jacket and bonnet. I have seen the articles at the police-station, and believe them to be those the deceased was wearing.
              Thanks DB.

              Is it true Lawende did not see Eddowes' body. If so, what are people's views of Lawende not seeing the body? Say from a standard procedure viewpoint etc...

              Martyn
              "The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out..."

              The Chemical Brothers

              "And they did!"

              Anon

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Curious Cat View Post

                It could explain the time delay between the murder and the killer passing through Goulston Street to place/drop the piece of apron.
                My thoughts exactly.


                Originally posted by mpriestnall View Post

                Thanks DB.
                what are people's views of Lawende not seeing the body? Say from a standard procedure viewpoint etc...

                Martyn
                Lawende says he only saw her from the back. I imagine the police thought it would be pointless to show him Cate's disfigured face which he claimed to never have seen. I think the police were more concerned with Lawende's description of the man she was seen with.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post

                  My thoughts exactly.




                  Lawende says he only saw her from the back. I imagine the police thought it would be pointless to show him Cate's disfigured face which he claimed to never have seen. I think the police were more concerned with Lawende's description of the man she was seen with.
                  Thanks DB. Doh!
                  "The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out. The brothers gonna work it out..."

                  The Chemical Brothers

                  "And they did!"

                  Anon

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post
                    Lawende says he only saw her from the back. I imagine the police thought it would be pointless to show him Cate's disfigured face which he claimed to never have seen. I think the police were more concerned with Lawende's description of the man she was seen with.
                    Perhaps. I'm not sure what the police procedure would have been, but if I were in charge I'd have asked him to take a look, even if he didn''t think he could recognise her, on the off-chance he could at least recognise her hair, or some other detail. Or more importantly he might have been able to recognise that it definitely wasn't the woman he'd seen.

                    I was going to say it's possible he'd viewed the body but failed to recognise it. It still is I suppose. But since he specifies that he viewed the clothes at the police station, rather than the mortuary, perhaps not.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DustyBones View Post

                      Lawende says he only saw her from the back. I imagine the police thought it would be pointless to show him Cate's disfigured face which he claimed to never have seen. I think the police were more concerned with Lawende's description of the man she was seen with.
                      I agree Dusty, its all about Sailor Man, and the irony is... by virtue of the fact that Lawende didn't see Kates face,..that Sailor Man may have been talking with someone other than Kate. Which would relegate him to Distraction,... like Mary Malcolm, Mathew Packer, Israel Schwartz, and George Hutchinson.
                      Michael Richards

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