Murder locations

[Malcolm X]

Hi Rob,


I dont think you or Monty should be sticklers on where he reports and what he should be in on anyway, Im not talking about a transfer or an official loan....there were City police in Millers Court...and in Goulston. And there were serious investigations going on that called for local knowledge and Fenian knowledge, blending some City and Met investigations....just like the experiences that Abberline possessed.He picked the crew. Did Mitre Square Pearce have that kind of background, Fenian investigations?


Best regards Rob

a Fenian connection is pure specualtion only, what these victims have do do with the Fenians is beyond me

[John Bennett]

Just to pop back to the original spirit of this thread, and following on from Phil's early post, here's a brief breakdown of what happened to some of the murder sites etc. after 1888.

George Yard Buildings:
Demolished in January 1973.

Buck's Row:
North Side - Brown & Eagle Warehouses demolished c. 1969. Essex Wharf demolished 1990. Swanlea School built 1993.
South Side - New cottage bombed c.1940-45. Terraced houses demolished January 1972. Board School renovated 1996 (as Trinity Hall).

29 Hanbury Street:
Demolished April 1970. Truman brewery extentions built immediately. Brewery closed 1988.

Dutfield's Yard:
Demolished c.1909/10

Mitre Square:
Houses in 'Ripper's Corner' demolished c.1940s/50s.
Kearley & Tonge Warehouses demolished c.1979 and Sir John Cass School playground extended. Office buildings constructed early 1980s.

Wentworth Dwellings:
Compulsory purchase order 1976. Closed 1982. Renovated and reopened 1991/2 (partly as Merchant House).

Dorset Street:
North Side: Demolished 1928. Fruit exchange built 1929.
South side: Demolished 1963. Van and lorry park opened April 1964. White's Row carpark built c.1971.

[iris84]

Seems a shame that locations of such historical interest no longer exist.

[halomanuk]

Also that more photo's were not taken before they all went...

[John Bennett]

Seems a shame that locations of such historical interest no longer exist.

One could say that, and such a thought has been posted on these boards before.

To be truthful, it's amazing that anything of these sites exist at all. Both Wentworth Dwellings and the Buck's Row board School narrowly avoided demolition in the 70s and 80s.

Historic these places may be, but I think the preservation of buildings just because they overlook a notorious murder site would cut no ice with the local preservation societies or council!

When 100 Sidney Street was pulled down in 1957, the LCC, in answer to requests to have the site of the famous seige commemorated, pronounced that it had no historical significance!

Also one has to bear in mind that most of these places were in a terrible state. During the GLC slum clearance programs of the late 1960s and 1970s, the surveyors reports of Durward Street, Winthrop Street, Rothschild buildings, Wentworth Dwellings and George Yard Buildings make the skin crawl. Bringing them up to standard would have been a financial nightmare. Demolition was the easiest option.

JB

[iris84]

Ok, just been having a google, in response to my own thread (I'm a geek, I know) and came across these videos on youtube. Might be of some interest for those who've never had a chance to visit Whitechapel and the murder locations.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuildfordGhost

Might be of interest to some (Ok, nearly all) of you.



EDIT: Just realised GuildfordGhost belongs to these forums (under a different name). Didn't twig until the Mary Kelly video.

[Nurse Sarah]

I had my first Ripper tour on sunday night and a piece of the wall that belonged to George Yard buildings was pointed out to me, only a short bit but nontheless it is still there...on Gunthorpe St.

[John Bennett]

Glad you enjoyed your tour, NS. You obviously got the 'Philip special' with the DY photo!

[Nurse Sarah]

Certainly did Jon!

Was a brilliant tour...will book you next time!

[WARSPITE]

Thanks Richard for the memories, god am I envious.

[WARSPITE]

Hi
I agree with Durward street being the most erie feeling, i stood on that very spot at 330am on the morning of the 31st August 1965, and it was extremely dark and atmospheric, i was not concerned about Muggers[ they were not fashionable then] but being the first of five visits that Autumrn[ on relevant dates /times, which i undertook] it was rather harrowing.
The strangest atmosphere i came across was back in the late 70s, when Dorset street was just a extremely deserted walk through, i remember walking the whole length of it slowly towards the main road, and i sensed a extreme peace, which i have never forgotten, even though the hustle and bustle of commercial street was in obvious attendance at the othe end , it was like it was in a different time warp.
Weird feeling.
Regards Richard.

Absolutely. Ive been to Dorset St several times and felt very little, except once a few years ago, after midnight, when all the walks have finished, long after the pubs and bars have emptied. Dont know whether it was just the sharp contrast of being in a quite street compared to noisy Commercial St, but I also felt very at peace. Sorry to get all sentimental!

[WARSPITE]

I went on Phil's excellent tour about seven months ago. It definitely brings the past to life and I highly reccomend it.

Murder scenes still creepy? While on vacation I visited them alone by daylight, and by night with a group on the tour, and for the most part I think I would have to say no. There is so much to distract (traffic noise, modern surroundings, etc.) that creepiness is not the effect one comes away with. If you are an emotional person though, some of the sites do leave one very sad. Mitre Square certainly does, and Durward Street even moreso. Standing on the site of Polly Nichols' murder at the end of the wall extending out from the old Board School, seeing all the assorted trash on the ground there and thinking how it was probably just the same back at the time, I found myself saying, "What a damn sad place to die."

That said, I have elsewhere described the Nichols site as getting my vote for being the "creepiest" of the murder sites, if there is any creepiness still to be felt at all. No doubt that would be the most true, though, visiting it alone at night, just out of fear of being mugged.

If you're looking for an emotional experience, I suggest "Mary's Corner" in front of the Ten Bells. Facing the street, look up and to your left. The contrast of imagining Mary Kelly plying her trade on that spot and the towering white edifice of Christchurch across the street, which would have loomed over her then as well, plays some interesting mind games.

Gun St is quite atmospheric, and a quiet place for contemplation,as is Puma Court I find. My first visit to Durward St in Oct1988 was rather 'dark' and unsettling, when the empty shell of Essex Wharf stood and the rest of the street was just fencing. I often wonder where Marys patch was, but you well be right richard. Ah, the memories...

[mousetrap]

Area of murders in miles?

Pretty basic question, but did all five murders take place in a one-square-mile area? There seem to be various descriptions of the size of Jack's territory.

Also, in 1888, what was the overall size (in square miles) of the entire East End?

[Bridewell]

Pretty basic question, but did all five murders take place in a one-square-mile area? There seem to be various descriptions of the size of Jack's territory.

Also, in 1888, what was the overall size (in square miles) of the entire East End?

Hi Mousetrap,

I'm not local to that area, as you can see, but I have visited a couple of times in the last year and been to all the canonical murder sites, as well as Tabram's & McKenzie's. The two furthest apart (of the canonical five) are Nichols on Bucks Row (now Durward Street) & Eddowes in Mitre Square. As the crow flies, I would reckon these two are separated by about three quarters of a mile (east to west - roughly). The distance between Chapman (Hanbury Street) & Stride (Berner Street - now Henriques St) (north to south - roughly) is about half-a-mile, I guess.
I would say yes, they would all fit within a notional square mile area. There are others who know the area much, much better than I do though, so you may find one of the tour guides who haunt these pages will give you a much more specific answer than I can.

As for the size of "the East End", that would probably depend on whose definition you went by. Personally, I haven't a clue. Sorry.

Welcome to the Boards, by the way.

Regards, Bridewell