Murder locations

[kensei]

Given that the majority of the crime scenes are different from what they would have looked like in 1888, I'm interested if people familar with the case but who had never been to Whitechapel would benefit from a quality Ripper tour. Those of you who have had one, did you get a better sense of the general area, street layouts, etc.? Would you recommend it? Is a murder scene still creepy if it is now a parking garage, etc?

I went on Phil's excellent tour about seven months ago. It definitely brings the past to life and I highly reccomend it.

Murder scenes still creepy? While on vacation I visited them alone by daylight, and by night with a group on the tour, and for the most part I think I would have to say no. There is so much to distract (traffic noise, modern surroundings, etc.) that creepiness is not the effect one comes away with. If you are an emotional person though, some of the sites do leave one very sad. Mitre Square certainly does, and Durward Street even moreso. Standing on the site of Polly Nichols' murder at the end of the wall extending out from the old Board School, seeing all the assorted trash on the ground there and thinking how it was probably just the same back at the time, I found myself saying, "What a damn sad place to die."

That said, I have elsewhere described the Nichols site as getting my vote for being the "creepiest" of the murder sites, if there is any creepiness still to be felt at all. No doubt that would be the most true, though, visiting it alone at night, just out of fear of being mugged.

If you're looking for an emotional experience, I suggest "Mary's Corner" in front of the Ten Bells. Facing the street, look up and to your left. The contrast of imagining Mary Kelly plying her trade on that spot and the towering white edifice of Christchurch across the street, which would have loomed over her then as well, plays some interesting mind games.

[richardnunweek]

Hi
I agree with Durward street being the most erie feeling, i stood on that very spot at 330am on the morning of the 31st August 1965, and it was extremely dark and atmospheric, i was not concerned about Muggers[ they were not fashionable then] but being the first of five visits that Autumrn[ on relevant dates /times, which i undertook] it was rather harrowing.
The strangest atmosphere i came across was back in the late 70s, when Dorset street was just a extremely deserted walk through, i remember walking the whole length of it slowly towards the main road, and i sensed a extreme peace, which i have never forgotten, even though the hustle and bustle of commercial street was in obvious attendance at the othe end , it was like it was in a different time warp.
Weird feeling.
Regards Richard.

[John Bennett]

Richard

Interesting stuff. Any other memories from visiting the sites in 1965?

JB

[richardnunweek]

Hello John.
My biggest regret looking back, was the lack of notes i took, i didnt even poccess a camera, i was a 18 year old lad , who was drawn towards this subject , and wanted that autumn, to experience what it felt like to be in the area , at the relevant place/time.
I had only a basic knowledge[ still have?] of the murders, but knew of the locations, as i had visited that area in the summer, during daylight, and familiarised myself .
I remember that because of the time these murders occured that i had a lot of waiting around to do , i usually arrived in Whitechapel as late as possible and found myself a place in which to pass the time , as i did not want to be done for loitering,
It was a long night in all instances, believe me, but i did see 29 , Hanbury street[ exterior] some years before Masons visit, and i rubbed my hand along the door as i passed, i remember standing opposite the house and sensed what it must have been like some 77 years previous, at 530am on September 8th.
On the 9th November , i walked from Thrawl street . to the entrance to Duval street, then half way up the street[ could only estimate where i was ] around 230am.
To be honest , i really did not take on board all the buildings that were present then, that have now been demollished, at eighteen years of age, one does not have that sense of 'I must note all of this down so i can discuss this all on a site called Casebook . on something called the internet, some forty years on.
Still a lovely experience, i satisfied my desire to feel the atmosphere, and i certainly had plenty of that.
Regards Richard.

[John Bennett]

Thanks, Richard.

I expect there are a few envious people here!

JB

[richardnunweek]

Hi John.
When you get to 62 years, one tends to envy those who were too young , to remember such a date.
Regards Richard.

[Malcolm X]

hi Richard

did you see millers court, was that still there in the 60/70's ? if so then i'm quite jealous

[George Hutchinson]

hi Richard

did you see millers court, was that still there in the 60/70's ? if so then i'm quite jealous

Millers Court was demolished in June and July 1928, M X. By the time Richard visited in 1965 even the southern side of the street had been gone for a year. On one side would have been an open car park and on the other, The London Fruit Exchange from 1929 which still stands in the same position.

PHILIP

[Barnaby]

Thanks for the stories. I'm very envious. I will definitely go on a tour if the dollar ever recovers enough for me to visit London.

[Malcolm X]

Millers Court was demolished in June and July 1928, M X. By the time Richard visited in 1965 even the southern side of the street had been gone for a year. On one side would have been an open car park and on the other, The London Fruit Exchange from 1929 which still stands in the same position.

PHILIP

i've seen photos of it being demolished, but couldn't judge the year... oh well!

it probably would've been demolished by German bombers anyway.

[Nothing to see]

The only place that stands out to me is Mitre Sq. Not because of the buildings, they've all changed. But Church Passage and St James Place are still there and the basic street layout hasn't changed.

[Monty]

Watkins beat

If anyone happens to find themselves around Mitre square, and want to do something other than stare at the cobbles, try walking Watkins beat.

Though you cant retrace his steps exactly, you can near as dammit. North side of Henage Lane is as was, Creechurch Buildings had just been built in 87, and of course Church of St Katherine Cree stood.

If you take a steady 2 and a half MPH you will find it takes you around 13 minutes to complete...which is as Watkins stated.

Fancy that.

Monty

[perrymason]

If anyone happens to find themselves around Mitre square, and want to do something other than stare at the cobbles, try walking Watkins beat.

Though you cant retrace his steps exactly, you can near as dammit. North side of Henage Lane is as was, Creechurch Buildings had just been built in 87, and of course Church of St Katherine Cree stood.

If you take a steady 2 and a half MPH you will find it takes you around 13 minutes to complete...which is as Watkins stated.

Fancy that.

Monty

Hi Monty,

Does the vantage point that Harvey would have had still exist...is there still a Church Lane there?

All the best Monty.

[George Hutchinson]

Hang on... didn't Harvey come down to the bottom of Church Passage? That being the case, his vantage point most certainly still exists, though now a great deal wider than in 1888.

Monty - you have to take into account the length of the legs of Watkins and thus his length of stride. You also need to consider the friction between his boots and the pavement given the damp conditions, and the phase of the moon. Bearing these factors in mind, you need to add 24.6 seconds +/- to your 13 minutes.

PHILIP

PHILIP

[Robert]

Bear in mind too that the moon may have exerted slightly more gravitational attaction on the top of Watkins's head than it did on his feet, i.e. Watkins may have been slightly spaghettified as he walked his beat, and therefore the length of his stride may have slightly increased by the time he got to the end of his beat.