Dutfields Yard interior photograph, 1900

[John Bennett]

Why would an alleway between the club and the house next door be called a yard

I thought the whole shebang was called 'Yard'. Green Dragon Yard off Whitechapel Road was (and still is) nothing but a long alley. Same goes for George Yard.

[John Bennett]

And Peck's Yard and Barber's Yard off Hanbury street were little more than passages between buildings too (Peck's Yard still exists and is only wide and long enough to fit two cars in).

[Monty]

Gravely concerned.

Either you are on a massive wind up or you simply have it completey wrong Trevor.

Before you post anymore I implore you to look at the evidence and testimony, as any good copper should.

How do these people get published?

[Trevor Marriott]

Mr H.
i dont know why you have got on your high horse about the comments on your photo. You know as well as i do that when anything new is put up on here it is open to close scrutiny.

You should be commended for finding the photo however sometimes when someone keeps looking at the same photo the saying "cant see the wood for the trees" comes to mind. Sometime it takes new set of eyes to uncover more from the pic.

The issue of the gates is now quite importnat to your pic. Clearly i see none at the forefront of your pic. so why is it easy to dismiss the new suggestion that the gates referred to were situated at the end of that alley. because clearly the position of the body was located in the yard facing the alley, not in the allley and as i said before why call an alley a yard when it is clearly an alley with a yard at the end of the alley.

[Ash]

Oh, right! It was the second set of gates. You know guys, that mysterious second set of gates that wasn't mentioned in any of the many detailed descriptions of the yard, and that doesn't feature in any of the copious illustrations of the yard. That's where she was. How could we all have gotten it so wrong all these years. Thank God for Trevor with his devastating insights into the case.

Trevor, you are wrong. It's as simple as that. And if you haven't figured that out for yourself by now, then Christ knows how you ever became a detective.

[Trevor Marriott]

i have looked at the evidence maye you are one who should remove the blinkers and the rose tinted glasses and take your head out of your a..e.

[Brenda]

Miller's Court had the little alleyway too.

[George Hutchinson]

Trevor, you are undone. Simple as that. Whenever your name is mentioned in the future, Ripper historians will mention your nonsense on this board today.

PHILIP

[Simon Wood]

Hi Philip,

Many thanks for posting your photograph.

Are you absolutely certain it's Dutfields Yard?

I ask because according to ordnance survey and Goad's fire plan the right hand [club side] wall of the yard was flush, and in your photograph the front of the white building on the right just beyond the open gate juts out into the yard a couple of feet, forming a corner which I never knew was there [though it can be seen in one of the Furniss illustrations].

I kinda see what Trevor's driving at in his own clumsy way. If my understanding of Dutfields Yard is correct [the gates closed flush to the footwalk], then in your photograph the people between the gate post and the camera must be standing in Berner Street.

Or do we need to rethink Dutfields Yard?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Simon

[Ally]

Yeah but they'll only say it behind his back. No one in this business ever says to your face what they say behind your back. It's really sad.


In any event, as it seems that Rob Clack did a crapload of work in establishing the provenance of this photo, I wanted to extend a good job to him also. He should also be congratulated on the work he's put in. Good job Rob.

[Monty]

i have looked at the evidence maye you are one who should remove the blinkers and the rose tinted glasses and take your head out of your a..e.

Is this post aimed at me Trevor?

Are you questioning my knowledge?

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

What is new everything i have contributed to the ripper mystery on here as been rejected by the band of so called "Experts" who hold court here on a daily basis. These people dont need to be named they know who they are they are akin to vultures sitting here picking to pieces anything anyone outside of their little group puts forward.

i am surprised that the new recently published material i have published on the apron piece and the removal of the organs has not been subjected to their carniverous methods or maybe that will come now i seem to have stirred them up.

Buy hey ho do i care ,no i dont. My work on the Ripper has now concluded and unless there are any major developments I will get on with my life as unlike some i do have one away from here.

In case anyone has not had the opportunity to read up on the new material. It can be found in an extended chapter on JTR in my new book "The Evil Within" copies can be obtained or my website www.trevormarriott.co.uk or Amazon or all leading bookshops.

The Truth is out there and remember not all are blind that cannot see !!!!!!

[John Bennett]

If my understanding of Dutfields Yard is correct [the gates closed flush to the footwalk], then in your photograph the people between the gate post and the camera must be standing in Berner Street.

Yes they certainly are. Well spotted.

[George Hutchinson]

And the tumbleweed blows on Trevor's site...

What a plonker. Now, back to the real world (and to think I defended this guy when introducing him TWICE at the Whitechapel Society...)

Ally, Rob is one of many people I have to thank for his work. Jake is way up there too as are several people who are helping with the geneological research on the identity of the mystery woman. It's not as if I haven't said this already and I made it very clear throughout my lecture who had done what.

Simon, the IWEC is not jutting out. This must be something you are seeing in a lo-res small copy. It is absolutely flush with the rest of the building in the original and hi-res enlargements. As for the gates, you are right to say it seems wrong. If you look further up the thread at my explanation of this and then look at the photo again, you will see the gates are where they should be and the groups lining the alley are mostly actually making a couple of rows right into Berner Street itself. The photographer is actually standing halfway across the Berner Street road, and not at the top of Dutfields Yard. The yard begins where you see the big rounded stone marker on the right next to our apron man. The shadows cast by the people on the left confirm they are on the street and not standing against a wall like further down.

Yes, I'm certain it's Dutfields Yard. As is Stewart Evans, Paul Begg, Martin Fido, Stephen Ryder and all the other people who have seen the actual photo. The only people doubting it haven't seen the real thing, and the only criticisms seem to be coming from the people who weren't made party to it in the first place. Hang on a minute... aren't these mostly the same people who weren't invited to join Spiro's writer's website?

Not so much the stalks of grapes as sour ones, as several people have told me in a less obtuse way.

PHILIP

[John Bennett]

What is new everything i have contributed to the ripper mystery on here as been rejected by the band of so called "Experts" who hold court here on a daily basis. These people dont need to be named they know who they are they are akin to vultures sitting here picking to pieces anything anyone outside of their little group puts forward.

i am surprised that the new recently published material i have published on the apron piece and the removal of the organs has not been subjected to their carniverous methods or maybe that will come now i seem to have stirred them up.

Usually, as a rule of thumb, anything which risks altering thinking on the Ripper case, be it the interpretations of memoirs, newly discovered Ripper letters, new suspects, etc is going to be picked at (often vociferously) by somebody, somewhere.

But I can't see how a photograph of something very relevant that has only ever been seen previously as drawings can warrant such suspicion.