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Dutfields Yard interior photograph, 1900

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  • I think there's no need to build a second set of gates in the yard
    Unless we're to think that all contemporary statements & illustrations chose to omit these. (Even if one could come up with a suggestion why such an odd double gating would be used in the first place)

    The "large barriers" refer to the main gate, one that had a wicket door.
    "the [employees] of both gaining *access and egress to the yard by means of a wicket-gate in the right hand half of the gate itself."

    As to the lighting:

    For a distance of eighteen or twenty feet from the street there is a dead wall on each side of the court, the effect of which is to shroud the intervening space in absolute darkness after sunset. Further back some light is thrown into the court from the windows of a workmen's club, which occupies the whole length of the court on the right, and from a number of cottages, occupied mainly by tailors and cigarette makers on the left. At the time when the murder was committed, however, the lights in all of the dwelling-houses in question had been extinguished, whilst such illumination as came from the club, being from the upper story, would fall on the
    cottages opposite, and would only serve to intensify the gloom of the rest of the court.

    (Illustrated Police News, 6 October)

    The steward of the International and Educational Club reached the gate just as the clock struck one. "It was very dark," he said. "There is no light near here, and the darkness is consequently much more intense between these two walls" - pointing to the walls of the Club and a house on the other side of the yard- "than out in the street. The gate was pushed back, and the wheel of my cart bumped against something. I struck a match to see what it was, but the wind blew it out.
    ......
    At 12.10 I went from the Club into the printing office to put some literature away. Upon returning, I went into the yard, and noticed that the gates were opened. There are no lamps in the yard; neither are there any lamps in Berner-street which will light the yard. The only light that comes into the yard is derived from the gas-light in the Club premises.
    (Echo, 10 October)

    The coroner stated that there were four lamps between Commercial-road and 40, Berner-street, a distance of 350ft.
    (Morning Advertiser, 3 October)

    /j

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
      Another point i want to mention again is that would any killer let alone Jack risk attacking and murdering a victim so close to the main street with people walking about. Surley he would lure his victim away from the main street down into the darkness of the yard itself or is that suggestion illogical
      No not in the least bit illogical. But 2 of the C5 murders were undeniably committed in the street, albeit Eddowes was in the dark corner of a Square, but still it was on the open and it was on the street and Nichols was killed in a residential street.

      Again perhaps it does point to stride not being a true Ripper killing, perhaps the killer knowing all he needed was the less than 5 seconds it take to cut her throat and lay her to the ground was all he needed, took the risk of pulling her of the main street by only a few feet.

      Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
      In any event why are we getting all hot under the collar when we know Stride wasnt a Ripper victim
      C'mon thats such a silly thing to say that it doesn't even deserve an answer.
      Last edited by Matty; 10-16-2008, 01:40 PM.

      Comment


      • Trevor Marriott writes:

        "... in fact now we know they open out into a passegeway/driveway"

        We have known that since 1888, Trevor. The maps have always been quite clear on the point.

        The best!
        Fisherman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
          Another point i want to mention again is that would any killer let alone Jack risk attacking and murdering a victim so close to the main street with people walking about. Surley he would lure his victim away from the main street down into the darkness of the yard itself or is that suggestion illogical

          You mean like Durward Street

          Personally I don't think Stride was a Ripper victim anyway, I think who ever killed her just cut her throat and left long before Diemschutz arrived, but that's just my opinion.

          Rob

          Comment


          • Rob,

            I agree....and stop your snivelling. If the horse shied away to the left from the body why not the 3rd party?

            Jake,

            Did you sort the lighting issues you had?

            Monty
            Monty

            https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

            Comment


            • I think who ever killed her just cut her throat and left long before Diemschutz arrived, but that's just my opinion.
              As far as I can recall, there was no blood splatter. I don't have my books with me, but were the strangulations represented in the press? It takes a lot more time to strangle and slash, than just slash. At least, I would assume. I haven't strangled and slashed in awhile.

              R

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                Rob,

                Did you sort the lighting issues you had?

                Monty
                Working from memory here....

                The photos & OS give us the best evidence as to the location of three of the four Berner St lamps. (Commercial Rd corner, Sander ST corner & entry to Batty's Gdns.

                Of course, the photos *are* early 19th c & the large scale OS is from 1873, so there is some room for error there. But in general, the lamps marked on these OSes mostly were still there in later photos etc.

                As to the last one....I'd guess the entry to Hampshire Ct would be a contender. Only a guess, though, based on where such things were usually situated.

                Comment


                • Jake,

                  You need access to the Board of Works archives.

                  Know anyone who could get that for you?

                  I have a man in Croydon who does all that work for me, he is very good. I shall send you his details!
                  Monty

                  https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                  Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                  Comment


                  • Annnd rest...

                    Comment


                    • There's a light-over at the International Workingmen's Educational Club' Hmmmmmm needs some more work...........

                      .....Better not try the 'Burning in the firepla-ace' line...That'd never work!
                      'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

                      Comment


                      • Hello all,

                        Thanks to those who have e-mailed and PM'd me about this thread. I was asked the same question by more than one person, so I figured I'd just answer it here: No, Philip did not show me the photo, and no I don't think there was any particular reason why. He has enough people in his close circle of friends far more knowledgable than myself, so there's no real reason why he should have, except perhaps to see if I had photos of Dutfield's Yard in my collection to which he could compare his own find. I'm just glad it was Philip who discovered the photo and not some of the naysayers on this thread who would have been clueless as to its relevance.

                        As to my own thoughts on the photo, I don't have any, because I still have not seen it.

                        Yours truly,

                        Tom Wescott

                        Comment


                        • Tom

                          Its a shame youve not had a chance to see it as I would have valued your opinion but, just as important, I know you would have enjoyed viewing it.

                          I hope you get a chance to see it soon.

                          Monty
                          Monty

                          https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                          Comment


                          • Me too- there must be a way- or there again maybe not..Anyway Welcome back Tom where were we chaps...The Light??

                            Suz xx
                            'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

                            Comment


                            • Uncle Dick!

                              Just my luck! I get sick with food poisoning and miss the photo being posted!I really will have to crack on with that time machine now!
                              Steve
                              _____________________________________________
                              Oh for a time machine to go back to 1888 and lurk about Whitechapel and see who was JTR

                              Comment


                              • Going back to my unchallenged point about the bare legs of the ladies in George's photo. It is unlikely that the photograph was taken before 1930 because of this important social factor.
                                In the mid 1920's women were photographed with the ankles bare, but in 1900 it was unimaginable that a well to do woman would have been photographed with bare legs up to the knees.
                                A couple of illustrations from that period:
                                Attached Files

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