Dutfields Yard interior photograph, 1900

[Ash]

Well Mr H i am sure like many others the phot is open to interpretation and pray tell how you come to now the exact spot where the body was found.
i beleive Mr D sated that his pony shied as he went to enter the yard which if that be the case is he yard at the back of the photo. No yard at the forefront of the pic

Didn't you write a book about the case or something? How exactly did you manage to do that without noticing that the position of the body is described very very accurately many times over. It was lying on the right hand side of the entrance to the yard, head leading up the alley, with the feet a few feet behind the end of the gate when open, next to the grating and before reaching the side door of the club. Now look at the photo. Can you see all those things?

Jeez, it's like playschool.

[Debra A]

Just wanted to add my congrats to you Philip on your very good find (and all those who worked on the behind the scenes research too)
I'm looking forward to hearing more about the photographer in the future.

Debs

[Mike Covell]

Any more ridiculous observations?

There is no Grapestalks,

No Grapes,

No Cashews,

and it is nowhere near big enough for a cattle ship to get into!!

[Fisherman]

Maybe the ones who never make a significant find are the ones who are to be congratulated? The strange mixture of well-wishings and scorning that Philip is being put through simply cant be healthy sanitywise.

Myself, I canīt tear my eyes from that spot along the right-hand wall inside the gates. Iīve focused on that small piece of ground so many times over so many years, and now I canīt believe I am actually looking at it. And on the surface, can a spot of ground be any more insignificant?

Thanks for the goose-pimples, Philip! And donīt spend any more time answering the ones who have a hard time accepting that they were not the lucky ones this time over - go looking for more instead. And stay on the trail of that American lady!

Sincere congratulations,
Fisherman

[George Hutchinson]

Well, I think Trevor has done himself a great service advertising his books when he doesn't even realise where the body of Liz Stride was found.

I think we have only himself and John Pope de Locksley who honestly didn't realise. Given the profession Trevor used to be in, it makes you shudder. I am gobsmacked that anyone in this day and age didn't know - and clearly refuses to learn.

PHILIP

[sdreid]

Interesting pic Phil. Wonder if Diddles or Pokey were still alive in 1900.

[George Hutchinson]

Thanks, Stan. I'm glad we got this sorted out; you're not someone I don't want to get on with (especially given your avatar over the years). I hope this image, low-grade on the net as it is (nothing like the original) has sated the curiousity and I can now carry on with the research I need to do.

I am not concerned by the nay-sayers. I'm just flabbergasted that there could be any negativity about this and, in the case of some, their obvious stupidity. It has certainly annoyed me, but not worried me.

PHILIP

[Trevor Marriott]

its all a question of interpretation you look at a photo and see what u want to see. I cant beleive some of you cannot see the same as i am seeing. or is you dont want to see.?

I have no axe to grind with Mr H the picture clearly speaks for itself. The yard is at the back of the photo. the forefront is the alley capable of taking a horse and cart down.

[Trevor Marriott]

position of the body "head leading up to the alley" in the yard get real some of you people

[Natalie Severn]

Oh Norma, leave it. Your arguement is akin to questioning grass being green and sky being blue.

You nor AP have asked me any questions about authenticity that can seriously be entertained or answered and you're making yourself look rather silly.

PHILIP

You know I love you really
thanks for the gander
XXX
psst....dont let the buggers get you down!

[John Bennett]

I think it's a real pity, but a lot of this sort of wrangling, I believe, is awful fallout from the era of the 'conspiracy theory', and I don't just mean in Ripperology.

There will always be suspicious types, but the culture of disbelieving everything on principle until concrete evidence is unearthed and then disbelieving even that on the grounds that it could have probably been forged is just a principle that makes my blood boil. 9/11 conspiracies, faked moon landings, all that stuff. Sometimes it's questioning for the sake of it, or at least an attempt at one-upmanship.

It usually results in people making half-baked excuses for why they think certain things, or coming up with flimsy assumptions no better than the premises they attempt to debunk.

We have an ordinary Victorian photo here, of a place that has been well illustrated in periodicals before, but which we can now see photographically for the first time. What could possibly go wrong??

[Jewal]

Maybe the ones who never make a significant find are the ones who are to be congratulated? The strange mixture of well-wishings and scorning that Philip is being put through simply cant be healthy sanitywise.

Myself, I canīt tear my eyes from that spot along the right-hand wall inside the gates. Iīve focused on that small piece of ground so many times over so many years, and now I canīt believe I am actually looking at it. And on the surface, can a spot of ground be any more insignificant?

Thanks for the goose-pimples, Philip! And donīt spend any more time answering the ones who have a hard time accepting that they were not the lucky ones this time over - go looking for more instead. And stay on the trail of that American lady!

Sincere congratulations,
Fisherman

Fisherman... I couldn't agree more... I too stare transfixed at that grate and the ground near it... it is haunting to me... I can almost picture her lying there. When everyone sees the picture clearly, as we did at the conference, you will be even more amazed. Philip had blown it up quite large and it was still clear to see detail after detail... I could clearly make out the gate stop among the cobblestones. The murder site, being exposed in contrast to the rest of the area that is lined with people (much as it may have been at the time of the murder) is clearly viewed.

[George Hutchinson]

Trevor could lose any vestige of respectability he had remaining, John. That's certainly gone wrong.

Yes, Trevor, and George Yard by your token thus didn't exist because it was an alleyway with no real yard in it except the stables - so Martha Tabram must have been killed there. May I ask, pray, just where you thought Liz Stride was killed? I could do with a little light relief. Then we can show you the myriad illustrations that exist of the murder spot.

PHILIP

[Trevor Marriott]

If you look at the new photo you can clearly see where the people are standing on both sides is the alleyaway going down to the yard. It looks as if there could have been a second set of gates at the end of the alleyway leading into the actual Dutfields yard. Look at the overhangs at the end of the alley significant with fixture for a gate.

Why would an alleway between the club and the house next door be called a yard

[George Hutchinson]

Does it look like there was a second set of gates, Trevor? Really. That's odd, because they're not in the photo that I and others have seen.

I'd leave this, if I were you. You are on a 100% non-starter like you were with your bizarre apron theory. Have you actually LOOKED at any maps or illustrations or was this just some crazy idea?

PHILIP