Dutfields Yard interior photograph, 1900

[George Hutchinson]

Yep, Trevor. Maybe because this is a fact rather than the (occasionally bizarre) supposition on which yourself and many others have made a nice sum of money, eh?

I've concluded those doubting this after all I've done and didn't want to do are a bunch of prats. Go hang yourselves. I have never been so pissed off in all my years on this site. Ungrateful bastards.

However, I am not about to do a flounce and announce I am leaving Casebook, because I have no intention of doing so. The amount of PMs and e-mails I've been sent of support have been overwhelming, as well as the posts on this board.

Anna - obviously, the photo you have seen is very lo-res so you can't pick out everything. One thing that does and will confuse people until they actually inspect the image is that it looks too long and the gates are too far down. The reason for this is that the first few people on either side are actually standing in Berner Street at the entrance. The yard begins with the gates. You can see this because of the shadows cast by the first few people on the left. There is clearly nothing behind them, and then the wall begins.

There has been a lot of work done, particularly by Jake, on where things were at the bottom of the yard. It appears the businesses kept moving about and some of the things on the 1889 Goads do not match up with the written descriptions of 1888. You were thinking that the yard was more square than this because at the bottom, on the right, it does open out to a small courtyard (off picture).

The murder spot is the one place where people are deliberately not standing, the gully running down from the guy in the apron by himself on the right. At the end of the gully is the steps into the IWEC and all the windows behind that are the club windows. The higher building at the end of the yard was a cabinet maker by 1900 and the smaller one is marked 'forge' on the 1889 Goads.

The cats (the detail of which is above) are on the steps of the IWEC building. One is on the ground, head cut off by a skirt. The other is in the doorway, head just visible looking down to the cat on the cobbles.

PHILIP

[Captain Hook]

Dutfield's Yard

Philip,

Congratulations on your find and sincere thanks for having shared it with us, albeit briefly. I wonder what the next find will be?

Cheers,
Hook

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Hooky.

There's nothing else - at present. I do know there is another photo of a Whitechapel Murder victim in life which exists, and I know who has it (not one of the usual suspects). I've never seen it, though, and I understand the family don't want it published.

I have just bought a postcard from 1891 sent from the Ragged School in George Yard but that's not really in the same league!

PHILIP

[Trevor Marriott]

But its not even a good murder site photo is it, it is a picture of the alley leading down to Duttfields yard which looks as if it is is at the back of the photo. The alley at the forefront looks hardly wide enough to get a horse and cart down

[Ben]

Excellent find, Phillip!

But its not even a good murder site photo is it, it is a picture of the alley leading down to Duttfields yard...

What else were you expecting too see in a photograph looking into Dutfields Yard, Trev? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Widerbeasts leaping majestically...?

[George Hutchinson]

Trevor, you are an idiot, sir.

It is a lo-res reproduction of a sharp image showing the actual murder spot of Liz Stride. It IS Dutfields Yard. That's what the alley is called, for Christ's sake, and the murder spot is near the front of the image, unobscured. You've just shown yourself up for someone who knows little after all. Are you suggesting that a photo of the back of the yard, not showing the murder spot and actually unquantifiable through the lack of available illustration of the rear, is what was needed? Sheesh.

PHILIP

[anna]

Hi Philip,
Thanks for explaining what I can now try to pick out.

I have my glasses on and a magnifying glass...nearly blind as a bat!!!!

I think the confusion is because of some sketches we have seen of the layout,and our understanding being a little out...after all,when that is all you have to go on,it's quite difficult to get a handle on things.

I think the children are lovely....I like the tall little girl with the long hair in the foreground..she is like something out of a storybook.

Thanks for letting everyone see it.
Top man,indeed...and we all love ya for it.
ANNA.

[Trevor Marriott]

The photo has been described as Dutfields yard clearly it is not that. the photo shows the alley leading to Dutfields yard.
go look at the photo of Dutfields yard which has been on casebook for some time now you can see a house next door which clearly creates an alley leading down to Dutfields yard. i am not suggesting that the photo isnt a good find but it clearly isnt what it has been described as.

[Mike Covell]

But its not even a good murder site photo is it, it is a picture of the alley leading down to Duttfields yard which looks as if it is is at the back of the photo. The alley at the forefront looks hardly wide enough to get a horse and cart down

It wasn't taken by a police officer, just a tourist, so the quality of the shot will not be fantastic! There are still a number of yards and entries like this in Hull and although they are tight, they still have the tracks along the floor from countless carriages over the years!

[Trevor Marriott]

Well Mr H i am sure like many others the phot is open to interpretation and pray tell how you come to now the exact spot where the body was found.
i beleive Mr D sated that his pony shied as he went to enter the yard which if that be the case is he yard at the back of the photo. No yard at the forefront of the pic

[Chris]

Well Mr H i am sure like many others the phot is open to interpretation and pray tell how you come to now the exact spot where the body was found.

You can find reports of the inquest testimony describing the position of the body here:

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_stride.html

[Mike Covell]

Trevor, a yard does not have to be an open space but can be an entry of sorts, such as George Yard.

The map can be seen here,

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/map/images/berner_st.gif

[Chris]

A more detailed plan, together with illustrations of the same scene, were posted by Robert Clack on this thread from 2005:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/14948.html

[John Bennett]

Trevor, a yard does not have to be an open space but can be an entry of sorts, such as George Yard.

The map can be seen here,
http://www.casebook.org/official_doc.../berner_st.gif

Not forgetting Vine Yard, Size Yard, Green Dragon Yard & Black Lion Yard...

[Ash]

But its not even a good murder site photo is it, it is a picture of the alley leading down to Duttfields yard which looks as if it is is at the back of the photo. The alley at the forefront looks hardly wide enough to get a horse and cart down

What a ridiculous thing to say!

It is the only murder site photo of this particular site. Hence it is the best one, whether you think it's a good one or not.

If you'd like to hop in a time machine and pop back to before it was demolished and shoot it from various angles with a chalk outline, I'm sure we'd all be grateful. Otherwise, for those of us who didn't hop on the case for the money ten minutes ago, it is fantastic to finally see the interior of the yard, however obscured, and the actual location itself.

The alley at the front, as pretty much everyone who has properly studied the case knows, is nine feet wide. Take the guy in the apron, who is probably about five feet eight or thereabouts, lie him down by the front gatepost, and you'll see that's just about right. Hence, it is wide enough for any horse and cart less wide than eight and a half feet to fit down.

Any more ridiculous observations?