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    Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
    Steve, Thanks for pointing out post #41 for me, missed that one. Was so proud of myself really thought I was onto something with my map (which took me ages to do, I hasten to add) & the newspaper report, which I see is also old news .

    No still good that you found it. That is good research.



    I agreed Queen Anne Street is a puzzle, I wonder if the beats overlapped in places. I'm assuming that the Northern Part of it would have been covered in the same beat that covered the Northern part of Baker's Row perhaps, but I'm just guessing here. Unless the bobby walked up one side and down the other, thus doubling back on himself, which isn't an unreasonable hypothesis?

    I assume that the plan in #43 allowed for the comment about yards and alleys and the one to the north end of Queen Anne (Elizabeth place) is the only really large one..
    In addition the Northern end seems to be a dead end and no obvious enter for another officer on another beat. So seems easiest if on same beat.


    All I've got to go on is the newspaper report, as the original beat maps have long since been lost. But moving onto Winthrop street, I'm just guessing here, otherwise it appears that it wouldn't have been included in a beat, which would appear odd? Am I right in thinking this was mostly commercial buildings (slaughter house/Thain's cape fame, etc??).
    I think the suggestion was that if one starts at the junction of Bucks/Brady he went right into Winthorpe, checked both sides including several yards back to Brady right into Whitechapel check both roads which lead up to Bucks Row and back down each not crossing Bucks Row. Along Whitechapel to Bakers up to whites row checked along to north side entrance of Thomas, back to Bakers into Thomas up and down across to queen Anne, left to Elizabeth place and top of Queen Anne back to Bucks and along to Brady.
    That I think was the proposal and it seems to cover the route you found.

    However it does not mean it is the right route, and your work is good.


    Steve

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    • Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
      Steve, yeh I'll have that #43 does certainly appear more accurate, but mine is more aesthetically pleasing

      But on a plus note, the newspaper report does confirm my hypothesis about staffing levels, with nine beats for 5 bobbies.............
      Seeing the map again I forgot the bridge up to Winthrope and the poster Franko I think did not have the turn into whites row going as far as I said.

      I think both are good efforts given what details we do have.

      All the best

      Steve

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Station Cat View Post
        Echo
        London, U.K.
        21 September 1888

        EAST END MURDERS
        THE POLICEMEN'S NIGHT BEATS
        THE PRESENT PRECAUTIONS
        A Correspondent has obtained exact details of those police beats covering the area within which the Buck's row murder was committed. From this it will be seen that the murderer had no doubt a considerable time in which he was quite sure of being undisturbed by a police constable, assuming he knew the beats. It seems that, notwithstanding the frequent repetition of murders round Whitechapel, under circumstances leading to the conclusion that they were the work of one man, not one single extra police officer was put upon the ground until after the commission of the fourth and last murder. Then the streets were filled night and by by police in and out of uniform.

        During the month of August, and up to the 8th instant, when Annie Chapman was killed, the following beats were covered by the men of the J Division quartered at Bethnal Green, these forming what is known as the "Second Section night duty." The first police constable would commence his two beats at Wilmot street, three Colt land, Cheshire street, Mape street, Bethnal Green road, to Wilmot street, and the interior, this consisting of a few streets, courts, passages, &c. The second constable would cover Three Colt lane, Collingwood street, Darling row, Dog row, Whitechapel road, Brady street, to Three Colt lane, and the interior, this consisting of about twenty streets, courts, passages, &c; the third constable would commence at Brady street, cover Whitechapel road, Baker's row, Thomas street, Queen Anne street, and Buck's row, to Brady street, and all the interior, this consisting of about ten streets, courts, passage, &c. The fourth constable would commence at Baker's row, go through Nottingham street, White street, Bethnal Green road, Mape street, London street, to Baker's row, and all the interior, consisting of about thirty streets, courts, passages, &c. The fifth and last man of the section would cover Whitechapel road alone, this making a total of nine beats for the five constables. The third beat was the one within the limit of which Mrs. Nicholl (sic) was murdered. The exterior of the beats are at least a mile in extent, and to this distance must be added the interiors.

        Working on the above as a guide (and with no period map to work from, hence the use of google maps - if someone has one that I could us, I'd be in their debt), I have come up with this rough guide as to the beats patrolled by the bobbies stationed at Bethnal Green Police Station.

        You will note that there appears to be a gap big enough for perhaps two more beats, next to Bethnal Green Garden and St Bartholmew Garden, I suspect that this area would have been covered by bobbies from Cambridge Heath Road Station (J Division), who I would assume had 5 more beats, that covered up to the boundary of Hackney (still on J Division) and Stepney (K Division).

        So we have 9 beats to cover with 5 bobbies, include into this fixed point locations and bobbies at the station, manning the front counter and custody etc, with perhaps a few more on standby in the event of a major incident (I believe these would have been the one's that answered PC Mizen's call for assistance, when he was dispatched to Bethnal Green, by PC Neil.)

        We know that there were 12 bobbies and one Sgt resident in Bethnal Green Station. We know that Sgt Kirby worked from Bethnal Green Station (but must have lived in the immediate community as he isn't on the census as being resident). The same can be said for Neil & Thane. From my research I can add PC James Chappell to this list and possibly PC Joseph Daniels, we also have PC Thomas Gordon and PC John Murphy to add to this list. So that's roughly 16 bobbies that we can be fairly sure of that worked at Bethnal Green Station, at the time. But obviously we can't be sure whether they all worked on the same shift. But using it as another rough guide. We'd need 3 shifts, to cover a 24 hours period, so that's 48 bobbies or there about's out of the 417 that were part of J Division, in 1888. Out of this we know that Kirby,Neil & Thane had a direct involvement in the Nichols murder with Gordon & Murphy involved in the search for Leather Apron. It stands to reason , considering how few bobbies there actually was covering this area that that night, that more bobbies must have been involved, such a shame that their names have been lost to history.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by The Station Cat; 05-01-2017, 05:25 AM.

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        • Cat

          There are great period maps avaliable online. The one below allows the use of multiple period maps and a present day Google overlay.


          http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom...layers=163&b=1

          you may find it very helpful in your research.

          All the best

          Steve

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
            Cat

            There are great period maps avaliable online. The one below allows the use of multiple period maps and a present day Google overlay.


            http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom...layers=163&b=1

            you may find it very helpful in your research.

            All the best

            Steve

            Thanks Steve

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