The could be knife Thomas Coram found on October the 1st 1888

[The Grave Maurice]

Me, I don't know anything about knives. But I enjoyed your story, Niko, and appreciated the photo. (I liked the way you used a ciggie for scale.) Nice to have you with us.

[Stephen Thomas]

Well Niko, in a cosmic sense, anything is possible..

And in a comic sense also.

[niko]

Well Niko, in a cosmic sense, anything is possible. But just to give you an idea about how weapons make it to museums and such:

Anything buried is inherently protected from the direct effect of the elements. Of course water seeps into the soil after rain, even soil under a bridge or railway. The problem with the soil in London is that it tends to be very wet and highly acidic. Especially within a couple of miles of the Thames. It is the worst possible place to try and find an intact weapon that predates the sixties. Not only is that where most of the pollutants from the industrial revolution tend to be, but it is where the pollution from the Thames gets deposited. North London does better, because it has clay soil which protects the metal and the wood in an almost waterproof environment. Chalk soil can also yield some finds because it tends to stay relatively dry.

Soil stratifies the way rock does. Rock strata indicate geological age, soil strata indicates historical age. Any weapon that was buried prior to the industrial revolution has a much better shot at surviving. The greatest weapons finds that we have made have predated the 19th century, and have been in clay deposits. Farmers who find swords in their fields have typically been digging well below the topsoil layers, disturbing earth from several hundred years ago. And the best metal finds have always come from having been buried in something. Even if the container rots away (like at Sutton Hoo) the negative space tends to be preserved, leaving essentially a wine cave for metal. Also single metal weapons wear better than alloys.

quote i repeat, how can i say, the mian componet of the arch floor was grease, i supose in the old days thet would use alot of grease for the horses leathers and i supose to grease up the carriage springs. The knife was burried in between 20 to 25 cm deep, the knife was covered in a sort of black crust and had no symptoms or rust in any way. my late grandfarther was a sort of blacksmith, he started working from an early age, he use to tell me that shoeing horses and ox was a common job, i still have tools which were made by him and one thing he use to tell me to maintain tools in good state, they must be regulary greased. I belive were there ws so much grease mixed with the superficial floor, this causing the knife from not rotting, the cloth that was wraping the handle was rotten and fell to pieces. What im trying to say is that i think the knife was burried, protected by GREASE sorry for insisting, one thing i canot tell you is how long its been burried, all the best..

[Roy Corduroy]

I lived in the East End of London, in the heart where Jack the ripper commited his horrific murders. At the age of seventeen whilst working in a near by railway arch to my home i unburried a knife.

I can't think of a better place to start, uncovering an old knife there. Thanks for sharing. It's good to have you, an East Ender with us, and I wish you well studying the old murders.

Roy

[Errata]

What im trying to say is that i think the knife was burried, protected by GREASE sorry for insisting, one thing i canot tell you is how long its been burried, all the best..

All I was saying was how intact weapons are usually found. Exceptions are everywhere, but with a claim such as yours it is only natural that someone would wonder how it survived for so long in the soil. My post was merely an explanation of how it usually works. It's rather fascinating how natural conditions can collide to either preserve or destroy our history.

My suggestion would be to check the history of the knife. Like anything else, styles and designs of knives come and go. Look at the general silhouette of the knife and try to find the earliest example of it. The handle for example is a design that I personally have never seen before WWII. But if you can find a knife with a handle like that from the 19th century, then that tells you it could be that old. Try to find makers marks or writing. It should be at the base of the blade near the handle, or in some cases on the butt of the handle. Certain knife makers have been around for centuries. Others are fairly new. Good luck!

[The Good Michael]

I can't help but imagine a short story about someone finding the Ripper's knife and picking up where he left off, ala EC Comics, Robert Bloch, and Rod Serling

Mike

[Chris]

Probably best not to put ideas into people's heads.

[The Good Michael]

Sorry Chris

[The Good Michael]

The hilt of the knife looks definitely 19th century to me, but it is perhaps Persian or Indian. The blade is more of some kind of entrenchment tool to me, and I wonder if the original owner assembled the pieces in a way that suited him. This should be brought to a collector for his opinions

Mike

[niko]

the hilt

The hilt of the knife looks definitely 19th century to me, but it is perhaps Persian or Indian. The blade is more of some kind of entrenchment tool to me, and I wonder if the original owner assembled the pieces in a way that suited him. This should be brought to a collector for his opinions

Mike

Hi Mike, thanks for your interst, i am positve the knife is hand made, and of great quality, it has no makers markings what so ever. I belive when you say the HILT of the knife you mean the form in which the handle ends, another member of the forum has mentioned this before. After not searching long on the internet i found a late 1800 butchers knife with the HILT the same as the knife i have. I repeat i think my knife is a hand crafted and of great quality, to view simular knife, search google on ANTIQUE HAND FORGED BUTCHER KNIFE to view, i think this is enough proof, showing that this type of handle exsisted at the time of the Whitechapel murders, all the best.

[The Good Michael]

Niko,

In the photo as the blade gets closer to the hilt, the edge looks a little bit rounded rather than in a straight line. That may be an illusion due to the coloring and the lighting of the photo. Is the blade slightly rounded at the rear edge?

Mike

[Abby Normal]

HI, the arch is in what before was called lower Chapman Street, five minutes walkung distance from the Berner club on BernerStreet.

Hey that my knife!

Just kidding. But it does look very similar to a kitchen knife that i own in a set-and its called a chopper-used mainly for chopping vegetables.

[niko]

Hey that my knife!

Just kidding. But it does look very similar to a kitchen knife that i own in a set-and its called a chopper-used mainly for chopping vegetables.

Hi Abby, but i bet you did not unbury your knife in an East End railway arch, nor was the blade bent or had a cloth tied with a string, I have reasons to belive it could be a fishmongers knife,youve gave me an idea though,may be if i would of looked more i could of found the rest of the set,ja ja ja, just kidding, all the best mate.

[niko]

Niko,

In the photo as the blade gets closer to the hilt, the edge looks a little bit rounded rather than in a straight line. That may be an illusion due to the coloring and the lighting of the photo. Is the blade slightly rounded at the rear edge?

Mike

Hi Mick, good question, ill explain the best i can, its not an illusion,its curved, but thats my fault, i was no expert with the grinding stone, that when shapening the blade took a chunk out of the cutting edge of the blade, i then tried to remerdy the problem, the only way by grinding down more the blade, causing that curve. The fact is the blade was intact not worn down like it is now, the blade looked spanking new in shape and the blade looked blunt, stangely enough. The blade is 1cm shorter and 1cm less in width but thats thanks to me. My life, telling the truth... all the best.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Whatever the origin of the knife it’s not the one found by Thomas Coram. Coram’s knife was described in some detail as:

“It was a knife such as would be used by a baker in his trade, it being flat at the top instead of pointed, as a butcher's knife would be. The blade, which was discoloured with something resembling blood, was quite a foot long and an inch broad, whilst the black handle was six inches in length, and strongly riveted in three places.”
The Daily Telegraph, 4 October, 1888.

As well, both Dr. Phillips and Dr. Blackwell thought the Coram knife unlikely to have been used in the murder of Stride. In the end this is just an old knife with no apparent connection to the Whitechapel murders.

Wolf.