The could be knife Thomas Coram found on October the 1st 1888

[Chris]

Another thing, the Scotland yard " Jack the ripper files " I thought they had been destroyed, until this week. They must be protecting somthing more important than the INFORMANTS NAMES and ADDRESSES. I think this obstacle can be over comed by eraseing the NAMES and ADDRESSES before the files become open to the public, or are they really protecting " A BIG FISH "

The files that have been in the news aren't "Jack the Ripper files" - those exist and are in the National Archives, though quite a lot of the material has gone missing over the years. They are Special Branch records which contain some references to the Ripper case (reportedly, 4 entries naming suspects, out of an estimated 36,000 entries in total).

The claim is that they can't simply conceal the informants' names because they can't tell which names are those of informants. To my mind that argument makes very little sense in relation to the most important of the documents - the Chief Constable's Register. We'll know in a few weeks whether the Information Tribunal accepts it.

On the positive side, the entries that explicitly mention the Ripper case have apparently been released, and we should know what they say fairly soon.

[niko]

[QUOTE=Chris;175466]The files that have been in the news aren't "Jack the Ripper files" - those exist and are in the National Archives, though quite a lot of the material has gone missing over the years. They are Special Branch records which contain some references to the Ripper case (reportedly, 4 entries naming suspects, out of an estimated 36,000 entries in total).

Thankyou for your information, sorry for calling them the ripper files, 36,000 entries, " wow " thats alot of names and addresses to erase.I supose that four enteries will be easier to erase the names and addresses. I hope some interesting imformation comes to light about the murders in the coming weeks.

[niko]

If the police were searching the arch way with metal detectors because of a murder it might be that you have removed evidence from a scene, it might have been that the murder happened in a different area or happened some years before and the police were acting off new information as to where the knife was buried.

I know there is little you can do about this now Niko but this might give some explanation as to why the police where there searching with metal detectors and not a conspiracy related to the Ripper murders.

Hello bounder, I have gone to bed many nights thinking about what you just said. First that comes to mind is that the knife is over a hundred years old, in which year was it used to commit murder? As I am sure it was used in a crime, if not what other reason is there for it being burried?. I unburried the knife some three years after, not before they searched the arch with metal detectors, and what a funny coeinsidence the propitor of the arch metioned and some arches that followed, in less than a month after the police search with metal detectors, he goes and buys a brand spanking new metal detector.

I asked him what he wanted the metal detector for? he laughed and replied me and my mate we,re going to get rich, we,re going to find coins at South End beach. This is the same man that I think is related to Aaron Kozminski, thanks for your interest Bounder. BUT, I still think its the Thomas Coram knife, all the best,Agur.

[niko]

Doe's the discription fit the knife or the knife fit the discription ?

Hello everyone, here's another interesting discription of the blade of the knife Thomas Coram found.

DAILY TELEGRAPH 6 OCTOBER 1888.


The knife produced on the last ocassion was not SHARP POINTED was it ? No it was rounded at the TIP, which was about an inch across. The blade was WIDER at the base. Was there anything to indicate that the cut on the neck of the deceased was made with a pointed knife ? Nothing.

The CORONER- No one has suggested that the crime was committed by a slaughterer.

WITNESS- I simply intend to point out the inconvenience that might arise using a BLUNT POINTED weapon.

This is, I think the best discription given of the END of the knife, ROUND POINTED at the TIP, but without a doubt the best word's to discribe the point ( end ) of the knife are using a 'BLUNT POINTED' weapon.


I think that a lot of people think that the Coram knife was rounded like a bakers palet ( bakers knife ). From what I have read I think they discribe a Sabatier French cook's knife. The discription's of the knife given in the British newspaper's, I think fit the knife I poses.

1) LONG BLADED KNIFE.

2) DAGGER SHAPE, SHARPEN ON ONE SIDE.

3) SIX INCH BLACK WOODEN HANDLE, STRONGLY RIVITED IN THREE PLACES.

4) AN INCH ACROSS, WIDER AT THE BASE.

5) ROUNDE AT THE TIP, BLUNT POINTED WEAPON.

This is without mentioning the rotten cloth wraped round the handle, and tied with a string, and not forgeting the fact the blade was bent when I unburried the knife. If it is the same knife, what was the reason for hiding it in a railway arch ? Was it because it was worthless EVIDENCE, or maybe because it was important EVIDENCE.


I wonder what would have been of the knife today if I did'nt unbury it ?
I know for a FACT that the arch floor where I found the knife, was gutted and a new concrete floor was laid, this was about fouir year's ago I thjink if it was imortant EVIDENCE, and I did'nt unbury it, it would surely of been lost for ever, all the best, Agur.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello niko

If the knife that you found is the one in the photograph that you posted in post number 9, I don't believe that knife could be described as being "rounded at the tip." Rather it is a "sharp pointed" knife, which, according to the inquest testimony you have just posted, the knife found by Thomas Coram was not. So I think you should give up your rather fanciful hope that knife you found is the same knife Thomas Coram found.

Sorry

Chris

[niko]

Hello niko

If the knife that you found is the one in the photograph that you posted in post number 9, I don't believe that knife could be described as being "rounded at the tip." Rather it is a "sharp pointed" knife, which, according to the inquest testimony you have just posted, the knife found by Thomas Coram was not. So I think you should give up your rather fanciful hope that knife you found is the same knife Thomas Coram found.

Sorry

Chris

Forgive me Chris, but like I have stated from the begining, the the point was rounded or blunt, the cutting edge of the knife was blunt and the blade was bent, turned, I staightened the blade,sharpened the blade,on doing this the tip of the POINT was returned to the knife, I am sorry Chris and other forum members if my story disturbs you. I am only telling the truth, and believe I am not making nothing up. I think I should remain silent for some time, sorry again,Agur.

[niko]

The Three Notches ?

Hello to everyone, here I am again, expressing my opinion on the forum, regarding somthing which I believe is related to the Whitechapel murders. For some reason which I do'nt know, I have held back information regarding MARKINGS ON THE KNIFE. The JTR experts I had contacted some year's back know about the THREE NOTCHES.


The knife I poses hs three clearly marked notches on the side of the wooden handle. They were on the handle when I found the knife. I have come to the conclusion that they are notches indicating " TROPHYS ". I know of hunter's which mark their rifles with NOTCHES when killing game ( big game ), for example a wild boar.


At one time I thought they could be markings for the owner to identify his knife, but that's absurd, as anyone could sandpaper away the notches on the wood. If I was to mark my knife for identification, I would mark it on the steel. I believe each NOTCH represent an ATTACK.


I would like you to "google" (stabbing in the back case No 2), forgive my, not knowing how to do the link. This article has some resemblence about my theory on the notches representing TROPHY'S. Another thing about the notches is that I believe to be one hundred percent sure that they were carved onto the handle by a left handed person. I experimented with friend's to make simular notches, the only way to carve the notches in the way they are is if you are left handed, or use the left hand to do them.


"Yes" I still think it's the Coram knife, and yes I do think the knife found along the Whitechapel Road at the time of the murder was involved in the murder's and ws left on the street to be found and handed to the Police. for what reason I do'nt know, sorry another long post, thankyou for reading all the best,Agur.

[niko]

The possible Kozminski connection with the knife.

Hello to everyone, I will try and be as brief as possible. At the age of thirteen I wittnessed how the metropolitan police searched the arch with metal detector's, the same arch where four year's later I unburried the knife, which I belief to be the knife that Thomas Coram found along the Whitechapel Road in 1888, and was taken to Leman Street Police Station.

The propitor of the arch at the time when the Metropolitan Police searched with metal detector's, was a man we knew as " Eddie " he was Jewish. As kid's we would hang around Eddies car repair garage somtimes fixing our bicicyle's.

At the age of sixty, Eddie inherited a Victorian house in Bow.
Eddie once said something to me and a friend which surprised us, he told us his real name was not Eddie but A. R. Cohen and that his surname had been changed from " Lominsky or kosminsky or something like that " to Cohen for some reason.

Me and two friend's went to Eddie's sixtith birthday party, we ate some sandwiches and had soft drink's, Eddie got drunk. He then told us the strangest thing, he told us that he was going to get alot of money for something a relative had done in the pass, we asked him what had his relation had done, but he replied with no answer.

On another ocassion Eddie bought himself a spanking new metal detector, wich I also witnessed him searching the arch where I found the knife with it.

I am researching Eddie at the present but have come to a dead end ( for now ). Eddie was born in the East End, like his farther, I truely think Eddie's grandfarther was Aaron Kozminskis cousin in 1888.

Two reasons why I think the knife I posses is the Coram knife are-

( 1 ) The likeness of the knife with the discription given in the newspaper's in 1888. (Blunt and the edge turned and wraped in a hankerchief ).


( 2 ) The statement where Eddie told a friend and I about his relative. Tried to be as brief as possible, all the best, Agur.


niko.

[niko]

The possible Kozminski connection with the knife.

Hello to everyone, I will try and be as brief as possible. At the age of thirteen I wittnessed how the metropolitan police searched the arch with metal detector's, the same arch where four year's later I unburried the knife, which I belief to be the knife that Thomas Coram found along the Whitechapel Road in 1888, and was taken to Leman Street Police Station.

The propitor of the arch at the time when the Metropolitan Police searched with metal detector's, was a man we knew as " Eddie " he was Jewish. As kid's we would hang around Eddies car repair garage somtimes fixing our bicicyle's.

At the age of sixty, Eddie inherited a Victorian house in Bow.
Eddie once said something to me and a friend which surprised us, he told us his real name was not Eddie but A. R. Cohen and that his surname had been changed from " Lominsky or kosminsky or something like that " to Cohen for some reason.

Me and two friend's went to Eddie's sixtith birthday party, we ate some sandwiches and had soft drink's, Eddie got drunk. He then told us the strangest thing, he told us that he was going to get alot of money for something a relative had done in the pass, we asked him what had his relation had done, but he replied with no answer.

On another ocassion Eddie bought himself a spanking new metal detector, wich I also witnessed him searching the arch where I found the knife with it.

I am researching Eddie at the present but have come to a dead end ( for now ). Eddie was born in the East End, like his farther, I truely think Eddie's grandfarther was Aaron Kozminskis cousin in 1888.

Two reasons why I think the knife I posses is the Coram knife are-

( 1 ) The likeness of the knife with the discription given in the newspaper's in 1888. (Blunt and the edge turned and wraped in a hankerchief ).


( 2 ) The statement where Eddie told a friend and I about his relative. Tried to be as brief as possible, all the best, Agur.


niko.

[Chris]

I am researching Eddie at the present but have come to a dead end ( for now ). Eddie was born in the East End, like his farther, I truely think Eddie's grandfarther was Aaron Kozminskis cousin in 1888.

By Aaron Kozminski's cousin, do you mean Morris Lubnowski Cohen?

[niko]

By Aaron Kozminski's cousin, do you mean Morris Lubnowski Cohen?

Hi Chris, no I do'nt mean Morris Lobnowski ( or at least thats what I think ). At the comence of my research into the knife I poses, I contacted with various ripper expert's, one being Rob house an expert on the Kozminski family. Rob gave me the understanding that Aaron Kozminski had two cousins, they were brother's, one named Hyman and the other Davies or something, ca'nt remember too good.

One was born in 1862 and the other I ca'nt remember. Some time after talking with Rob House I searched back Eddie's ( A.R Cohen ) family, reaching back to his grandfarther whose name was Hyman Cohen and after looking up the 1901 censors, found out that Hyman Cohen ( Eddie's grandfarther ) was also born in 1862, apparently out of the U.K, could of been Poland.

I see a coincidence between the two Hyman's but Rob House assures me that they are not the same Hyman, I have no other choice than to belief him.
If Eddie is alive today he would be ninety. I've looked at the register office, but nothing, I ca'nt find him " nor dead nor alive ". This is like all that surrounds the Whitechapel murder's, one big puzzle and half the bit's missing, all the best,Agur.

niko

[Chris]

Rob gave me the understanding that Aaron Kozminski had two cousins, they were brother's, one named Hyman and the other Davies or something, ca'nt remember too good.

One was born in 1862 and the other I ca'nt remember. Some time after talking with Rob House I searched back Eddie's ( A.R Cohen ) family, reaching back to his grandfarther whose name was Hyman Cohen and after looking up the 1901 censors, found out that Hyman Cohen ( Eddie's grandfarther ) was also born in 1862, apparently out of the U.K, could of been Poland.

Thanks for explaining. There was indeed a cousin, born Haim Lubnowski at Klodawa in October 1863. As far as we can tell, he married an Annie Davis (after 1901), and was known as Hyman Davis after that. There are various references to this Hyman Davis and Mrs Hyman Davis living at Kroonstad, South Africa, between 1905 and 1917. So it looks unlikely that he would have had a grandson named Cohen born at Whitechapel in 1921, unless perhaps by an earlier marriage.

At any rate, if you could find your Hyman Cohen in England in the 1911 census, and married to someone other than Annie, that would prove definitely that he wasn't the right man, as she was still living (at Kroonstad) in 1913. I dare say if you can post the details from 1901, someone will be helpful and look him up for you.

[niko]

Thanks for explaining. There was indeed a cousin, born Haim Lubnowski at Klodawa in October 1863. As far as we can tell, he married an Annie Davis (after 1901), and was known as Hyman Davis after that. There are various references to this Hyman Davis and Mrs Hyman Davis living at Kroonstad, South Africa, between 1905 and 1917. So it looks unlikely that he would have had a grandson named Cohen born at Whitechapel in 1921, unless perhaps by an earlier marriage.

At any rate, if you could find your Hyman Cohen in England in the 1911 census, and married to someone other than Annie, that would prove definitely that he wasn't the right man, as she was still living (at Kroonstad) in 1913. I dare say if you can post the details from 1901, someone will be helpful and look him up for you.

Hi Chris and thank's for your interest, here are some detail's which I used to find Hyman Cohen in the 1901 censor - Hyman Cohen's address in 1898,
8 ELY PLACE
WHITECHAPEL
He was a tailor journeyman. His wife name was Tobeh Cohen formerly Yerusalimski.

With this information my stepfarther Mick found Hyman Cohen in the 1901 censor, in this censor Hyman and Tobeh were both thirtynine on their last birthday, that's were I get that Hyman was born in 1862.

I thank anyone who could forward me information about Hyman Cohen. It has passed my mind that maybe the connection to Kozminski could be Hyman's wife Tobeh Yerusalimski or even Eddie's ( A.R Cohen ) mother's side of the family. Lets see if someones lucky and find's something, " coz this is like finding a neddle in a haystack to me ". All the best, Agur.

niko

[Chris]

Hi Chris and thank's for your interest, here are some detail's which I used to find Hyman Cohen in the 1901 censor - Hyman Cohen's address in 1898,
8 ELY PLACE
WHITECHAPEL
He was a tailor journeyman. His wife name was Tobeh Cohen formerly Yerusalimski.

With this information my stepfarther Mick found Hyman Cohen in the 1901 censor, in this censor Hyman and Tobeh were both thirtynine on their last birthday, that's were I get that Hyman was born in 1862.

Thanks for that information. I see the 1901 census entry for that address, which shows Hyman (39) and Toby (39) and their children Davis (20), Lewis (18), Rebecca (13), Joseph (9), Charles (5) and Marcus (2).

I don't have a subscription that covers the 1911 census myself at the moment, but from the free index I can see a household in Mile End Old Town containing the following, who appear to be members of the same family:
COHEN HYMAN 50
COHEN DEBRA 48
COHEN CHARLES 15
COHEN MARCUS 12
Debra is stated to have been married for 30 years, so she would be Toby/Taube under a different name.

Unfortunately that would make it impossible for this Hyman Cohen to be the same person as Hyman Davis, who was married to Annie and (apparently) living in South Africa at the date of the 1911 census.

[Debra A]

Niko, Chris, here are the full 1911 census details.

COHEN, Hyman Head Married M 50 1861 Tailor Russia Poland Resident
COHEN, Debra Wife Married 30 years F 48 1863 Russia Poland
COHEN, Charles Son Single M 15 1896 Mechanical Engineer Sewing Machines London Bethnal Green
COHEN, Marcus Son M 12 1899 School London Whitechapel

The couple had 6 children, 5 of whom were still living in 1911.

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1572 Reference:
RG14PN1572 RG78PN56 RD21 SD1 ED1 SN77

Registration District:
Mile End Old Town Sub District:
Mile End Old Town South Western Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Mile End Old Town

Address:
79 Newark St Stepney E County:
London