Why those particular victims?

[Fisherman]

I have a feeling that he would have been coward about it, depending when he was caught. He would run. If it was post Chapman, the witness only had to shout "Ripper" and I'm sure in a matter of minutes the man would have been lynched.

I have a question for you - and all other posters who think the killer would have run:

Anybody heard of the so called startle reflex?

It is the reflex that comes into action when we are surprised and that makes us startle if we are suddenly subjected to a strong stimuli. The reflex involves blinking when we are surprised.

This reflex is stronger and lasts longer when the surprising element is perceived as unpleasant or frightening, regardless if the stimuli relates to something we hear or see.
People with anxiety have a reinforced startle reflex.

And did you know that we spontaneously get a tension of our muscles when we are scared? It is something that prepares us for flight.

What is very interesting in this context, and when discussing the Ripper, is that psychopaths lack the startle reflex partly or on the whole. And their muscles do not spontaneously prepare for flight when they see or hear something that could be perceived as intimidating.

Before one knows about these matters, it is perhaps wise not to simply accept that a psychopath would react with flight just like we do.
If the killer WAS a psychopath - and much points to it - then he would not have felt the same inclination to run as normal people would.
He would be physically predisposed not to react with fear and flight.
And he would not even blink.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Bridewell]

That was such a bad day... but it does lead me to believe that simply continuing what he was doing was not entirely out of the question. Mostly out of the question, but not entirely. There is no common response to an uncommon situation. Merely varying degrees of odd.

Good post this, Errata.

[Harry D]

Well the last time I was caught assaulting someone in a British alley the man said "Oh dear god! I'm so terribly sorry" and turned around and walked out.

Come on, Errata, you can't leave it there.

[Bridewell]

Catherine was not only considerably older as well as shorter than Mary, and lacked an Irish or Welsh accent.

We don't know that Kelly had an Irish or Welsh accent.

[L A Lester]

Agree. You just have to look at Margaret White's murder in March 1888 to see how people reacted. Over a 3 hour period her drunken husband beat her. When her grandson brought PC Swindon to the house at 1230 he just gave the husband a warning and left. Two hours later a customer walked in on the beating, complained about what he was doing, picked up her purchase and left. It was the neighbor who finally put a stop to it at 1630 and calls for help. By then it was too late - Margaret was pronounced dead at 1850. If that's how people reacted in Chelsea - imagine how much worse it was in the East End.

[Errata]

It is quite extraordinary that the Ripper was never caught in the act. You have to wonder how he would've reacted. Would he have quickly tried to silence any witnesses? What if it was some burly bloke and not a half-cut hooker who spotted him? Or he would have scarpered hoping that they didn't get a good look at him?

Well the last time I was caught assaulting someone in a British alley the man said "Oh dear god! I'm so terribly sorry" and turned around and walked out.

That was such a bad day... but it does lead me to believe that simply continuing what he was doing was not entirely out of the question. Mostly out of the question, but not entirely. There is no common response to an uncommon situation. Merely varying degrees of odd.

[Rosella]

Catherine was not only considerably older as well as shorter than Mary, and lacked an Irish or Welsh accent.

The walls, ceiling etc of those rooms were probably paper thin. Mary could just as easily have been lying in bed when the attack happened and only had time to call out once. What solid evidence is there that the woman killed in Miller's Court wasn't Mary Jane Kelly, apart from Mrs Maxwell's testimony?

[No Luck Yet]

Do you mind if I ask, if that's so - if Kelly's murder was a personal attack and Eddowes was mistaken for Kelly - what does that imply for the rest of the C5? Do you believe that those two were the work of a different killer than Nichols, Chapman, and Stride? Or that the whole series represents the killer hunting for Mary in particular? Or that the early murders were somebody's attempt to scare her off the straight?

Also, begging your pardon, if the killer knew Mary, is it likely that he'd mistake Catherine Eddowes for her? Wasn't she considerably shorter, for starters?

It is kind of a cool idea, though, isn't it?

[Michael W Richards]

Hello, Michael.

Interesting hypothesis.

Why couldn't the killer have barged in and incapacitated her there and then?

If your scenario is to be believed, then it does narrow down the list of possible Ripper candidates. Where would Joseph Fleming rank among them?

Hi Harry,

Ive been flogging the idea that the cry out was from Mary while at her door for some time now, (just ask Sam Flynn....I think it intrigues him as well), which would as you say give us information that there was a pre-existing relationship between this killer and his victim. But I remain unconvinced that The Ripper fits this scenario, or the carnage that the room ends up in. I believe Marys other Joe is certainly among the people I would like to identify, that's for sure,... it makes sense if its Fleming, but its not a given that it was. And we hear from witnesses that this other Joe "treated" Mary "badly" on occasion, but I don't recall that being part of any of her discussions with anyone about her time with Mr Fleming. As for the idea that he attack Mary immediately, well....there are 2 women who could apparently hear things from around Marys room...one upstairs..and no sounds were heard to follow the cry out. Which to me suggests not that the attack began without any noise, but that Mary didn't need to converse with this man to find out what he wanted at almost 4am. She just lets him in.

I think what my suggested scenario could address is whether Mary knew her killer, how he gained access to the room,...(the scenario suggests she never left it again after 11:45pm Thursday night),...and it might address the issues which to me speak of a personal vendetta of sorts.....the absolute destruction of Mary, and the cruel slashing of her face.

I think its at least possible that the Mary Kelly that was killed the night of the Double Event... (by virtue of the last fake name Kate uses)...might in some way be tied in with the real Marys eventual demise, and I also suspect that Mary Kelly of The Court was killed because of someone or something she knew, not because she was randomly chosen by a serial killer while peeking into windows inside small, egress restricted courtyards.

Cheers Harry, all the best

[Harry D]

Hello, Michael.

Interesting hypothesis.

There is no noise that followed that cry out, suggesting that they door was closed again, and the attack on Mary had not commenced.

Why couldn't the killer have barged in and incapacitated her there and then?

If your scenario is to be believed, then it does narrow down the list of possible Ripper candidates. Where would Joseph Fleming rank among them?

[Michael W Richards]

If you want to know how the killer likely got into Marys room, all you need do is review the evidence given by Sarah Lewis and Elizabeth Prater, both heard a woman exclaim "oh-murder" at approximately the same time, and there is no record of anyone coming forward to claim that they were that voice. Sarah heard the voice as being loud...she was in the court at the time, and Elizabeth heard it "faintly". as if the sound was carried up to her and entered via an open window. Hence, its quite probable that Mary answered a soft knock on the door or the window, waking Diddles upstairs, and when she opened the door she was hung over and dismayed to see someone she knew standing there...which is the more probable answer as to what "oh-murder" actually referred to. There is no noise that followed that cry out, suggesting that they door was closed again, and the attack on Mary had not commenced. Since Mary is undressed when killed we also have some evidence that she was in the company of someone she knew.

The facial slashing back and forth, nothing like the specific way Kates nose was cut, is again another clue that her killer knew her.

Cheers

[SirJohnFalstaff]

It is quite extraordinary that the Ripper was never caught in the act. You have to wonder how he would've reacted. Would he have quickly tried to silence any witnesses? What if it was some burly bloke and not a half-cut hooker who spotted him? Or he would have scarpered hoping that they didn't get a good look at him?

I have a feeling that he would have been coward about it, depending when he was caught. He would run. If it was post Chapman, the witness only had to shout "Ripper" and I'm sure in a matter of minutes the man would have been lynched.

[Rosella]

I just get the feeling that if Jack got the opportunity to run away into the darkness then he would have. If, however, he was trapped in a yard or blind alley by a couple of burly males then he might well have tried slashing at arms, faces etc with his knife in an effort to get away. Whether he would have succeeded is another matter.

[Harry D]

It is quite extraordinary that the Ripper was never caught in the act. You have to wonder how he would've reacted. Would he have quickly tried to silence any witnesses? What if it was some burly bloke and not a half-cut hooker who spotted him? Or he would have scarpered hoping that they didn't get a good look at him?

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

Would an LVP killer, possibly desperate after a month's break, bother to make such a distinction, or would he perhaps simply see a suddenly offered favour (whichever way it was delivered) as an opportunity?

Moreover, how much would he feel suddenly empowered, and how might this affect his "performance".

No ulterior motive...just something that's bugging me following your post...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave.
I'm inclined to think this killer, if feeling the heat too much in Spitalfields/Whitechapel, is more likely to move to Bethnal Green or St. George, than to change his M.O.
Of course, changing his M.O. is not an option if we accept this killer was invited in by Mary.