The masonic annulment of the marriage, triagonal perfection and the killer.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

You might recall that Smith described the hat worn by Parcelman as a hard felt deerstalker. Jon's (Wickerman) post #11 is of interest in this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/general-discussion/748021-other-attacks-man-wearing-deerstalker-hat

Cheers, George

Cheers George.

[Rex mundi]

I’m sorry Rex but you can’t expect to get away with that one. The light was sufficiently good for Lawende to see the two people across the road.

Why are you reluctant to reveal the actual pictures in full light? I’ve provided actual photographs of a Victorian policeman’s helmet and a real Deerstalker hat proving that they cannot be mistaken. You’ve provided two undisclosed silhouettes.

The lighting in Whitechapel was poor at night especially down alleys where there was no lighting at all. Some streets were very poorly lit and many complaints were lodged during the ripper murders. The gas lamps were poor, very poor and it's a well known fact.
So why make out things were different? Just to back up your own arguments?
The previous post has just said the weather was great when the whole period was wet and drizzle for most of the murders?
So to ID the images, I've put you in the same situation as they faced back then, poorly lit streets, drizzle and a bit of smog floating about.
If you can't ID them both then just say so.

[Elamarna]

Never said there was fog, I said misty along with smog which is a mixture of smoke and mist. The murders took place over several weeks, August was a wash out but rain was present for much of the murders. MN it rained, AC was showers, ES and CE both raining/showers.
The weather for the year in general was terrible with flooding in the east end during August.

Your posts clearly implied that mist and smog would have made it difficult to view, however, the records clearly indicate that the nights of the murders were clear.

That it rained was not mentioned, please do not attempt to move the goalposgoals.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The lighting in Whitechapel was poor at night especially down alleys where there was no lighting at all. Some streets were very poorly lit and many complaints were lodged during the ripper murders. The gas lamps were poor, very poor and it's a well known fact.
So why make out things were different? Just to back up your own arguments?
The previous post has just said the weather was great when the whole period was wet and drizzle for most of the murders?
So to ID the images, I've put you in the same situation as they faced back then, poorly lit streets, drizzle and a bit of smog floating about.
If you can't ID them both then just say so.

You haven’t put them in the same condition. It wasn’t that dark. People would have been walking into each other.

Why should I or anyone else be able to ID someone from a silhouette?

[Rex mundi]

So picture the scene, its the early hours in Whitechapel. There is drizzle in the air, a little smog about and the street lighting isn't up to much. You see a man and woman over the road and think nothing of it. You can hear them talking but not quite hear what they are saying. You see the man has a dome shaped hat in the silhouette of the night.
You go home and go to bed.
The next day you hear of the murder and police are taking statements. When the police ask you if you saw anything you remember a dome shaped hat on the man over the road and the policeman asks you what kind of hat?
What are you going to say? Dare you say police helmet? Dare you? I wouldn't, it's too suggestive especially in the light you are stood in front of a bobby. So you'd say the obvious thing - shaped like a deer stalker. Or the officer may even suggest it for you.
No way in a million years you say bobby's helmet shaped. You'd get a kicking back then.
And that is why none of you can answer the question about the image. You can't because you don't know. You only know that both hats could be either a bobby's helmet or a deer stalker, that is all you will ever know.
But just for the record, someone take a shot at it will you?

[jmenges]

Rex’s little silhouette test is laughably unrealistic. No surprise given the entire theory is based on complete nonsense.

JM

[Elamarna]

Of course the City Police helmets were different in design to the helmets worn by the metropolitan police

[Rex mundi]

Rex’s little silhouette test is laughably unrealistic. No surprise given the entire theory is based on complete nonsense.

JM

Why would it be unrealistic given the conditions we know about?
The street lights in our street broke in October and were out for three weeks. During that time we only had the dim lighting from people's houses but it was a great time to experiment for myself.
I watched as people passed the windows of houses across the road and all I got was a silhouette of there body against the house lights, all detail was removed.
That got me thinking and I used my outside light along with four other people's outside light to dimly light my row. I'd say a little stronger than gas lamp power and diffused too. Got the same result, I still couldn't make out detail of passers by, just silhouette's like before.
It gave me a little insight into poorly lit streets and I'll be honest with you, it scared me and it scared my wife. We didn't like it and complained several times but it was an underground cable which was severed and it took them ages to locate it.
So, in the image you have what they had, if I give you more then I would be risking innacuracy with lighting. If you can't decide then neither could they.
That's the point.

[jmenges]

You’re using 2 dimensional black clip art silhouettes placed on top of a nearly black void to represent how 3 dimensional living and moving human beings would definitely look like on a dark public street or alleyway in Whitechapel on the nights of the murders without any convincing evidence to support it, while ignoring existing evidence that completely contradicts that your strange phenomenon occurred.

JM

[Ms Diddles]

[/I]

I think you may be dismissing this prematurely, Herlock!

Think about those two apparently extraneous "A"s combined with that address.

AA + Varden Street=

A.A.R.D.V.A....

Now, my theory would appear to fall down at this point, however one has to remember that aardvarks (particularly psychotic masonic ones) are notoriously poor at spelling.

They have extremely short attention spans and lose interest quickly.

[Rex mundi]

You’re using 2 dimensional black clip art silhouettes placed on top of a nearly black void to represent how 3 dimensional living and moving human beings would definitely look like on a dark public street or alleyway in Whitechapel on the nights of the murders without any convincing evidence to support it, while ignoring existing evidence that completely contradicts that your strange phenomenon occurred.

JM

It is extremely difficult to portray a three dimensional silhouette against a poorly lit street.
If you look at the image below it would resemble something like that. Imagine someone walking along in front of the house and trying to make detail. The gas lamps were poor, they had to be cleaned on a regular basis because of the sulphur dioxide from the stacks, it dirtied the glass quickly with the soot.
So the light was heavily diffused from them, very dim and worse than candle power. The wicked lamps were much the same.

[Abby Normal]

Why would it be unrealistic given the conditions we know about?
The street lights in our street broke in October and were out for three weeks. During that time we only had the dim lighting from people's houses but it was a great time to experiment for myself.
I watched as people passed the windows of houses across the road and all I got was a silhouette of there body against the house lights, all detail was removed.
That got me thinking and I used my outside light along with four other people's outside light to dimly light my row. I'd say a little stronger than gas lamp power and diffused too. Got the same result, I still couldn't make out detail of passers by, just silhouette's like before.
It gave me a little insight into poorly lit streets and I'll be honest with you, it scared me and it scared my wife. We didn't like it and complained several times but it was an underground cable which was severed and it took them ages to locate it.
So, in the image you have what they had, if I give you more then I would be risking innacuracy with lighting. If you can't decide then neither could they.
That's the point.

your a hilarious. but welcome and merry christmas .

[Rex mundi]

I find it hard to swallow that the ripper would continually wear a deer stalker when it had been printed in the newspapers that he was doing so.
That would be an invitation to disaster for him personally and it's not in the interest of either serial killers or otherwise to do so.
The fact that witnesses continued to insist on a deer stalker even after the newspaper reports must put doubt in people's minds. If you were all coppers then you'd be asking the same questions and you'd soon be discounting deer stalker hats.
I have no alternative but to conclude these women were either led away by a bobby or someone pretending to be a bobby.
The Eddowes case is the smoking gun for me in that respect. She was in the custody of the police, never identified by anyone after leaving the station at 1am. The ID from the Imperial club witnesses is inconclusive IMO and there is no guarantee it was Eddowes.
So, the police had custody then she was dead, that's all there is in my locker and that is enough. No Victorian police force is ever going to point the finger at itself and incriminate itself in murder.
No one can truly tell the difference from a police helmet to a deer stalker at night in poorly lit situations, I think I've proved that today.

[Rex mundi]

Unless..........someone is prepared to take a stab and ID both. Come on Herlock Sholmes, you stated in a previous post that there is a massive difference between the two and it's obvious. If its obvious then take a stab.
Abby Normal Merry xmas to you too and thankyou. p.s you don't fancy taking a stab at which of these two are either bobby's helmets or deer stalkers do you?
I can't get anyone to have a go.

[Enigma]

Good one Ms Diddles.