The masonic annulment of the marriage, triagonal perfection and the killer.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It's is important that those who read this thread are aware that the information you have supplied is deeply flawed and inaccurate.

Believe me, we do Steve.

[Rex mundi]

The arguments you have presented with regard to distances do not stand up to any serious, reasonable scrutiny.

The distances I have given are accurate and completely supported by all avaliable technology.

It's is important that those who read this thread are aware that the information you have supplied is deeply flawed and inaccurate.
That you are apparently not able to either provide sourced support for you claims or accept you are mistaken says much.

Google earth, although not as accurate as GPS isn't too far away.

[Elamarna]

Google earth, although not as accurate as GPS isn't too far away.

The pin point for Berner Street is clearly on the Eastern side of said street. It should be inside the school grounds on the Western side.

The pin point in Mitre Square also appears to be in the wrong place. You have it by the new high rise blocks, that's the wrong location.
If you don't use the correct locations then of course your distances will be incorrect.
I will assume these are genuine mistakes on your part.

I also used Google Earth, and the distance between the actual murder locations is 949-950 yards.






Click image for larger version Name: mitre.jpg Views: 0 Size: 201.8 KB ID: 828183 image widget

[Rex mundi]

The point is that you have no evidence of this being planned over months or years. You are making an assumption to fit your theory rather than following the evidence. No one would waste so much time and effort finding random women with names that fit an anagram. Especially one that no one would have worked out at the time. So there was no point in leaving a ‘message’ that no one would have understood. There were no ‘loose ends.’ Serial killers kill women and don’t get caught in the act or seen at the scene. Serial killers working in tandem are vanishingly rare. Surely you can see how this theory is stretched way beyond breaking point. An example that’s already been pointed out is - how can anyone mistake a policeman’s he;Met for a Deerstalker. It’s not unlikely it’s impossible. There’s not the slightest possibility of this being the case.

CC Zain is an astrologer. Therefore he’s a charlatan. So we can forget him.

I know nothing about Pike apart from his Wiki entry but I think that we may be talking about different things here. No one is denying that Jubela, Jubelo and jubelum were named in Freemasonic ritual but there’s no evidence of the actual word JUWES being mentioned. If you have direct evidence of this actual word being used then of course I’ll take it on board.

And again, anagrams aren’t evidence.

You seem quite dismissive of things you haven't really looked at.
You also seem quite sure that everything happened by chance. Lets discuss Eddowes for a minute. One minute she's in police custody and the next minute she's dead.
What are the odds of a woman being released from a jail cell then abducted and killed minutes later by the ripper? A few questions arise. Judging by witness statements, there was a large police presence in that location. Several officers walked in and around Mitre square on their beat, there were at least four policemen in that location that I know of in and around the time of the body discovery including an off duty officer. Who in their right mind would choose a place crawling with police?
The question then arises did she acually get released from police custody at all. No one spoke with Eddowes after her release at 1am.
It all boils down to whether you trust the police and the statements they made because they are the only people that surround her death. That's a fact.
Why did she tell the duty officer her name was Mary Kelly?
Did she know something was wrong and tried to lie herself out of it?
Let's just run an hypothetical by you. Lets just say the ripper had a police uniform for some reason. Lets just say Eddowes is released at 1am as per the police statement. How easy would it be for the killer to entice Eddowes into any situation he required of her? How easy would that be?
How much sense would that make for all the rest of them too? Someone you trust with your life who will take your life.
In the dark, a deer stalker could quite easily be mistaken for a bobby's helmet. You'd just get the dome shape.

[Elamarna]

Here is my Google Earth

Sorry it's on imgur, but having issues uploading images

[Rex mundi]

Here is a man outlined wearing a deerstalker against a Victorian bobby. Both from real pictures. Herlock Sholmes Could you tell the difference in the dark?

[Rex mundi]

Here is my Google Earth

I did my line too long by being at the school. Yours is too short, you have the victim in the middle of Mitre square. The victim was at the south west corner of Mitre square opposite the pub doors today.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here is a man outlined wearing a deerstalker against a Victorian bobby. Both from real pictures. Herlock Sholmes Could you tell the difference in the dark?

Yes. The two couldn’t be mistaken.

Victorian policeman’s helmet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&oq=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEIOTI2N2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=ybARECGUn35nSM&vssid=l

Deerstalker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&sca_esv=594483408&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=AM9HkKkQlLfHRkb53XpTNt_8ey2QAjs_0g%3A1703884437771&ei=lTaPZbDTLt-dhbIP8vC8qAs&oq=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhttYW4gd2VhcmluZyBkZWVyc3RhbGtlciBoYXQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEjlLlC5EFjIKXABeAGQAQCYAWmgAdMHqgEEMTAuMrgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICBxAAGIAEGA3CAgsQABiABBiKBRiGA8ICCBAAGB4YDxgKwgIEECEYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBhE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=uo1HMTpMFtTQJM&vssid=l

Not even remotely similar.

[Rex mundi]

Yes. The two couldn’t be mistaken.

Victorian policeman’s helmet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&oq=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEIOTI2N2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=ybARECGUn35nSM&vssid=l

Deerstalker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&sca_esv=594483408&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=AM9HkKkQlLfHRkb53XpTNt_8ey2QAjs_0g%3A1703884437771&ei=lTaPZbDTLt-dhbIP8vC8qAs&oq=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhttYW4gd2VhcmluZyBkZWVyc3RhbGtlciBoYXQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEjlLlC5EFjIKXABeAGQAQCYAWmgAdMHqgEEMTAuMrgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICBxAAGIAEGA3CAgsQABiABBiKBRiGA8ICCBAAGB4YDxgKwgIEECEYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBhE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=uo1HMTpMFtTQJM&vssid=l

Not even remotely similar.

So, of the two outlined images, which is the policeman? Be careful now!

[Elamarna]

I did my line too long by being at the school. Yours is too short, you have the victim in the middle of Mitre square. The victim was at the south west corner of Mitre square opposite the pub doors today.

No, I have the body where it was found, in Ripper corner.
That is a few feet in from the wall of the present day school.
You have it almost opposite where it was.
This is not a matter of debate my friend , this is recorded fact .

I suggest you check the images below.

https://photos.casebook.org/thumbnailsbdab.html?album=5

[c.d.]

I can see it now -- the Ripper with a tape measurer in his hand. Excuse me Miss, would you mind moving 16 and a half feet to your right?

c.d.

[Rex mundi]

No, I have the body where it was found, in Ripper corner.
That is a few feet in from the wall of the present day school.

https://photos.casebook.org/thumbnailsbdab.html?album=5

I have it where PC Edward Watkins said it was, in the south west corner of Mitre square. Its in his testimony.

[Rex mundi]

Have a go at the images and tell me which is the deer stalker and which the Victorian bobby. Or are they both deer stalkers or are they both bobby's?
Everyone is convinced they know the difference in the dark. It should be interesting.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You seem quite dismissive of things you haven't really looked at.

Why do you think that someone who has been interested in this case for nearly 40 years hasn’t looked into the Freemason theory. I have the books on the subject, I’ve read the evidence and I’ve seen the factual rebuttals which dismissed the whole theory years ago.

And you still, despite being asked three times, haven’t provided any evidential connection between Varden Street and Freemasonry.

You also haven’t provided the names of those criminologists. Claim require backing up.

You also seem quite sure that everything happened by chance.

And you are joining dots that we have no reason to join. How many serial murders have occurred in history? How many of them required a conspiracy to explain or solve them? The answer is none. Man walks the streets, meets a prostitute, takes her to an isolated spot and kills her.

Lets discuss Eddowes for a minute. One minute she's in police custody and the next minute she's dead.

This can be said about every single murder victim in history. One minute they’re alive, the next minute they are dead.

What are the odds of a woman being released from a jail cell then abducted and killed minutes later by the ripper?

She wasn’t abducted. Why are you making that claim?

The chances of a woman being killed after leaving a police station are no more or less likely than a woman being killed after leaving a pub or a fish and chip shop or getting off a bus.

A few questions arise. Judging by witness statements, there was a large police presence in that location. Several officers walked in and around Mitre square on their beat, there were at least four policemen in that location that I know of in and around the time of the body discovery including an off duty officer. Who in their right mind would choose a place crawling with police?

There were 2 officers on a beat and one in bed in one of the cottages that backed on to Mitre Square. The area wasn’t ‘crawling’ with police. Many streets were patrolled by Constable’s. It was a hazard of the job for prostitutes. Risk is inherent in any act of street murder. It’s unavoidable. The killer was a serial killer. Serial killers by definition aren’t ’in their tight mind.’

The question then arises did she acually get released from police custody at all.

It’s not a question. She did. It’s on record.

No one spoke with Eddowes after her release at 1am.

Who would she be chatting to at 1am apart from her killer?

It all boils down to whether you trust the police and the statements they made because they are the only people that surround her death. That's a fact.

To distrust evidence you need facts that throw that evidence into question and not just opinion. And certainly not because their testimony doesn’t fit a theory.

Why did she tell the duty officer her name was Mary Kelly?

A common occurrence amongst prostitutes. It keeps their real name off the record.

Did she know something was wrong and tried to lie herself out of it?

We have no valid reason for suspecting that.

Let's just run an hypothetical by you. Lets just say the ripper had a police uniform for some reason. Lets just say Eddowes is released at 1am as per the police statement. How easy would it be for the killer to entice Eddowes into any situation he required of her? How easy would that be?

Very easy I’d imagine but that’s not evidence that it happened. We might as well suggest that George Morris grabbed her, drugged her and took her into Kearly and Tongue’s and waited until the killer arrived. There’s no evidence for it though.

How much sense would that make for all the rest of them too? Someone you trust with your life who will take your life.

Thes women didn’t need to be cajoled. They were dirt poor and desperate for cash. They went to secluded spots with men for money. Sadly they were the perfect targets for a serial killer. How many times in history have we seen prostitutes as victims of serial killers? I don’t think that I need to produce a list do I?

In the dark, a deer stalker could quite easily be mistaken for a bobby's helmet. You'd just get the dome shape.

The two photographs that I’ve show that not to have been the case. The man seen with her a few minutes before her death, most likely her killer, wore a grey cloth cap. The men who saw her from a few feet away couldn’t possibly have mistaken a police Constable as the man with her.

How could our conspirators have known where she was going after she parted company with John Kelly? Did they follow her? And if they did why did they let her get so drunk and then watch her get arrested leaving them kicking their heels until such time that she was sober enough to be released? All of this just because her name helped to complete an anagram!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I can see it now -- the Ripper with a tape measurer in his hand. Excuse me Miss, would you mind moving 16 and a half feet to your right?

c.d.