The masonic annulment of the marriage, triagonal perfection and the killer.

[Elamarna]

I have it where PC Edward Watkins said it was, in the south west corner of Mitre square. Its in his testimony.

I respectfully suggest you actually look at the various images. sketches were drawn which clearly show where the body was found. There are also photos clearly showing where the body was found.

Watkins said at the inquest :

"I next came into Mitre Square at 1.44, when I discovered the body lying on the right as I entered the square"

He entered from Mitre Street, the body was on his right. You have the body on his left as he entered.

This image marks the spot very well

https://photos.casebook.org/displayimagefb62.html?album=5&pos=14

That you interpret his comments different to every other researcher is amazing.

It is Collard who says South West corner, Not Watkins.

The square is not oriented north - south , the area you talk of could easily be referred to as the Western corner.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Have a go at the images and tell me which is the deer stalker and which the Victorian bobby. Or are they both deer stalkers or are they both bobby's?
Everyone is convinced they know the difference in the dark. It should be interesting.

Show us the pictures in full light.

[jmenges]

Have a go at the images and tell me which is the deer stalker and which the Victorian bobby. Or are they both deer stalkers or are they both bobby's?
Everyone is convinced they know the difference in the dark. It should be interesting.

LOL. Which crime scene are these stationary, pitch black silhouettes supposed to be at?
And did the Bobby remove the metal badge from his helmet?

JM

[Rex mundi]

How could our conspirators have known where she was going after she parted company with John Kelly? Did they follow her? And if they did why did they let her get so drunk and then watch her get arrested leaving them kicking their heels until such time that she was sober enough to be released? All of this just because her name helped to complete an anagram!

One would assume the killer knew she was at the station because the chances of being released and into the arms of the ripper are slim to zero.
Would the ripper hang around a police station for random prostitutes to emerge then murder them in a place full of police without being scared of detection?
I doubt it very much.
He can choose the whole of the east end, hundreds of random prostitutes wondering the streets ready to be picked up yet he stalks one coming out of a police station?
He must have been near the police station to spot her in the first place.
My own personal belief is that at least one of them is in a police uniform or indeed a policeman himself involved.
So if you could tell me from the image I posted which is the deer stalker and which is a bobby, or are they both deer stalkers or both bobby's?
If you can nail it then I'll believe anyone can spot the difference in the dark.

[Rex mundi]

LOL. Which crime scene are these stationary, pitch black silhouettes supposed to be at?
And did the Bobby remove the metal badge from his helmet?

JM

Lets just say you are in a poorly lit part of Whitechapel, its misty, there's a bit of smog about and you see those dark figures with a prostitute over the road.
Can you ID them, just give it a shot.

[Elamarna]

Just to make it clear, here is the sketch of the murder scene,

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/victims/catherine-eddowes/784175-kidney-from-hell?p=784373#post784373

[jmenges]

Can you ID them, just give it a shot.

Yes that’s obviously Prince Eddy on the left and J.K. Stephen on the right.
Congratulations, you’ve solved it.

JM

[Rex mundi]

Show us the pictures in full light.

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

[Elamarna]

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

Indeed the weather reports are clear, we have some on this forum.
There was no fog on any of the nights a murder occurred, that's one of those myths perpetuated by film.

[Rex mundi]

No one dare have a guess and I'll tell you why. Because it proves that no one knows the difference between a deer stalker and a bobby's helmet in very poorly lit conditions. If you guess wrong it will prove how difficult it really is at night to correctly ID people.
That was the point of the image.
That is why there are so many deer stalker stories emerging from many witnesses. Its human nature not to assume its the police, so the mind goes to the same shape that is not the police - a deer stalker.

[jmenges]

Again, at which murder location was it so dark that people appeared completely black against nearly black?
Or, am I right to say you’re just making **** up?

JM

[Herlock Sholmes]

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

I’m sorry Rex but you can’t expect to get away with that one. The light was sufficiently good for Lawende to see the two people across the road.

Why are you reluctant to reveal the actual pictures in full light? I’ve provided actual photographs of a Victorian policeman’s helmet and a real Deerstalker hat proving that they cannot be mistaken. You’ve provided two undisclosed silhouettes.

[GBinOz]

Yes. The two couldn’t be mistaken.

Victorian policeman’s helmet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&oq=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEIOTI2N2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=ybARECGUn35nSM&vssid=l

Deerstalker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&sca_esv=594483408&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=AM9HkKkQlLfHRkb53XpTNt_8ey2QAjs_0g%3A1703884437771&ei=lTaPZbDTLt-dhbIP8vC8qAs&oq=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhttYW4gd2VhcmluZyBkZWVyc3RhbGtlciBoYXQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEjlLlC5EFjIKXABeAGQAQCYAWmgAdMHqgEEMTAuMrgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICBxAAGIAEGA3CAgsQABiABBiKBRiGA8ICCBAAGB4YDxgKwgIEECEYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBhE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=uo1HMTpMFtTQJM&vssid=l

Not even remotely similar.

Hi Herlock,

You might recall that Smith described the hat worn by Parcelman as a hard felt deerstalker. Jon's (Wickerman) post #11 is of interest in this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/general-discussion/748021-other-attacks-man-wearing-deerstalker-hat

Cheers, George

[Rex mundi]

Indeed the weather reports are clear, we have some on this forum.
There was no fog on any of the nights a murder occurred, that's one of those myths perpetuated by film.

Never said there was fog, I said misty along with smog which is a mixture of smoke and mist. The murders took place over several weeks, August was a wash out but rain was present for much of the murders. MN it rained, AC was showers, ES and CE both raining/showers.
The weather for the year in general was terrible with flooding in the east end during August.

[Herlock Sholmes]

One would assume the killer knew she was at the station because the chances of being released and into the arms of the ripper are slim to zero.

Repetition of an opinion doesn’t make it true. The ‘chances’ of her being released and then killed are not unlikely in the least.

Would the ripper hang around a police station for random prostitutes to emerge then murder them in a place full of police without being scared of detection?
I doubt it very much.

This is a straw man argument because no one is suggesting this apart from you. She left the police station, ended up walking to Mitre Square where she ran into her killer. It’s what serial killers do.

He can choose the whole of the east end, hundreds of random prostitutes wondering the streets ready to be picked up yet he stalks one coming out of a police station?
He must have been near the police station to spot her in the first place.

This is such poor reasoning Rex. Surely you can see this?

My own personal belief is that at least one of them is in a police uniform or indeed a policeman himself involved.

Bearing in mind that these police officers came from the same station and would have known each other you don’t think it would have been a bit of a risk for a Constable to have seen a complete stranger in a uniform walking the beat?

So if you could tell me from the image I posted which is the deer stalker and which is a bobby, or are they both deer stalkers or both bobby's?
If you can nail it then I'll believe anyone can spot the difference in the dark.

It’s a pointless trick test. You can find a silhouette that looks like a man but it’s actually a chimp or a dog. Look at the actual photographs I’ve provided. Not remotely similar.