Was JtR a necrophile?

[jerryd]

Perhaps Cleary had a cleft lip and palette, a birth defect. It used to be referred to as a hare lip, because of the appearance of the top lip. Cleary had a full moustache, perhaps hiding it. In Victorian times there would have been no automatic treatment/operation for that condition.

Good call Rosella. That could very well be it.

[jerryd]

Incidentally the graffitti was found 'at the corner of Frederick Street." Frederick Street was a dark passage connecting to Pinchin Street under the railway lines south toward Cable Street. It did not connect to Cable Street, though.

[Rosella]

Perhaps Cleary had a cleft lip and palette, a birth defect. It used to be referred to as a hare lip, because of the appearance of the top lip. Cleary had a full moustache, perhaps hiding it. In Victorian times there would have been no automatic treatment/operation for that condition.

[jerryd]

No roof to his mouth? What on earth does that sound like?

I feel really stupid for even trying this (you'll see what I mean) haha.

Say a word beginning with the letter "T" or D", such as "tongue" or "David", but don't let your tongue touch the roof of your mouth when you pronounce it. Now that's peculiar alright.

[RockySullivan]

No roof to his mouth? What on earth does that sound like?

[jerryd]

Thanks Rocky,

Remember Mr. Miller (man who supposedly found the thigh of Annie Jackson on the embankment)? Here, again, is the description Miller gave of John Cleary.

'John Cleary, formerly attached to the Globe office; age 35, height 6 feet., comp. fresh, hair and heavy moustache dark, bald, medium build, speaks peculiar, as though he has no roof to his mouth, who about 4 months ago was residing at 2, Savoy Buildings, Strand.'

Savoy Buildings in Strand were right next to the Adelphi Terrace and arches on the Victorian Embankment.

[RockySullivan]

And this, from the same newspaper and day.

THE DISCOVERY ON THE EMBANKMENT
The officers who are making inquiries with respect to the shocking discovery made at the new police offices at Westminster have received information that on Saturday afternoon, at twenty minutes past five, a respectably dressed man, about 35 years of age, was seen to get over from the hoarding in Cannon row, and to walk quietly away, and that he was not followed, or the police informed of the matter, because no importance was attached to the matter at the time. The police have forwarded a description of this man to all police stations, with a view, if possible, of tracing him. Inquiries are also being made for the purpose of ascertaining whether any person on Saturday afternoon after the workmen had left the building was seen to get over the hoarding with any bundle. Yesterday morning the work of carefully examining the vaults where the body was found was diligently proceeded with by a number of detectives. There is a well in the vaults, and this has yet to be searched. The police are firmly of opinion that the individual who conveyed the body into the vaults was intimately acquainted with the formation of the building.

Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already.

It hasn't jerry thank you and that's the first I've heard of the respectably dressed man. The last line seems to reiterate what I've been saying. How many could have been intimately acquainted with the vaults? Someone who worked there before construction began?

[jerryd]

And this, from the same newspaper and day.

THE DISCOVERY ON THE EMBANKMENT
The officers who are making inquiries with respect to the shocking discovery made at the new police offices at Westminster have received information that on Saturday afternoon, at twenty minutes past five, a respectably dressed man, about 35 years of age, was seen to get over from the hoarding in Cannon row, and to walk quietly away, and that he was not followed, or the police informed of the matter, because no importance was attached to the matter at the time. The police have forwarded a description of this man to all police stations, with a view, if possible, of tracing him. Inquiries are also being made for the purpose of ascertaining whether any person on Saturday afternoon after the workmen had left the building was seen to get over the hoarding with any bundle. Yesterday morning the work of carefully examining the vaults where the body was found was diligently proceeded with by a number of detectives. There is a well in the vaults, and this has yet to be searched. The police are firmly of opinion that the individual who conveyed the body into the vaults was intimately acquainted with the formation of the building.

Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already.

[jerryd]

I still subscribe to the multiple killer theory within the same group. Not necessarily the High Rip gang as this suggests, but, who knows. Interesting this note talks about one killer in the east end and one killer in the west end.

Daily News
United Kingdom
5 October 1888

"3 October.
Dear Boss *
Since last, splendid success. Two more and never a squeal. Oh, I am master of the art! I am going to be heavy on the guilded * now, we are. Some dutchess will cut up nicely, and the lace will show nicely. You wonder how. Oh, we are masters. No education like a butcher's. No animal like a nice woman * the fat are best. On to Brighton for a holiday, but we shan't idle * splendid high class women there. My mouth waters * good luck there. If
not, you will hear from me in West end. My pal will keep on at the east a while yet. When I get a nobility * I will send it on to C. Warren, or perhaps to you for a keepsake. O, it is jolly.
George of the High Rip Gang.
Red ink still, but a drop of the real stuff in it."


The other interesting thing about this one is the comment about nobility. Send what to Warren? Is this suggesting a body, as in torso?

[Batman]

A potential falsification. The torso parts don't appear to show signs of stitching. Although it would be easy enough to hide.

[John G]

I think errata first brought this to my attention in a thread on this sub forum not sure which one. The fetus in the jar was found in the thames around the same time as Jackson's pregnant torso yet doctors concluded it was not the missing baby. Explain that one? I tried doing some research but turned up Nary a mention at all. Torso may have kept the fetus as trophy or it ended up buried in some vault.

Errata good post. Do you think whitehall torso was left on purpose or intended to be buried? Not sure why it would have clippings if it was going to be buried. But why bury the limbs and leave torso? Again I think this was someone familiar with the vault and not someone who scoped out the place for dumping randomly.

I think that, like the scattering of the body parts in earlier murders, the burying of the torso in the New Scotland Yard building was intended to be the ultimate macabre joke, i.e. from his perspective, emphasizing his total superiority over an incompetent police force. The Pinchin Street Torso, dumped just 100 yards from Berner Street, and by the railway arches that Schwartz ran to, might have been intended to achieve the same effect.

[RockySullivan]

Pickled babies?!?Im going to have nightmares.

Ive never heard about that before-care to expound?

I think errata first brought this to my attention in a thread on this sub forum not sure which one. The fetus in the jar was found in the thames around the same time as Jackson's pregnant torso yet doctors concluded it was not the missing baby. Explain that one? I tried doing some research but turned up Nary a mention at all. Torso may have kept the fetus as trophy or it ended up buried in some vault.

Errata good post. Do you think whitehall torso was left on purpose or intended to be buried? Not sure why it would have clippings if it was going to be buried. But why bury the limbs and leave torso? Again I think this was someone familiar with the vault and not someone who scoped out the place for dumping randomly.

[Batman]

Yes, I believe the railway arch that he ran to was on Pinchin Street.

I thought that was the connection. Thanks.

[John G]

Did Schwartz describe the area in his escape?

Yes, I believe the railway arch that he ran to was on Pinchin Street.

[lynn cates]

I do

Hello Errata.

"So a paraphilia is (to paraphrase) any sex act that is ruining your life. Anything that causes dysfunction, whether it be the inability to otherwise enjoy sex, become housebound . . . etc."

Good heavens! You've described married life. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC