What's your profile for Jack?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Miakaal! Clarity

I'm confused by your post. Are you saying you don't think the murders are a single individual because the motive appears to change?

[Rob1n]

Possibly well off enough to disappear from his home life /family - "on business" .

Have a rented dwelling, in the area, could afford to stay in the area for weeks sussing things out, might have been reconning the area for months in order to be accepted as just another face in the area, gets to know the area relatively well.

He would dress as a normal working class man , probably a bit shabby as when/if challenged by people or police, would want to be accepted as perhaps, a drunk or tramp?

He's possibly got some sort of military knowledge, he seemed to be cool when evading, he's comfortable with killing at close quarters, albeit with an unarmed woman, it would still cause the average person to feel queasy doing what he did, possibly a retired military surgeon?

Anyway, he'd be strong and fit enough to move fast for distance.

Could it be that he is quite mad as well, goes into rages, imagine that he was seen occasionally, who would challenge or admit to having seen this mad man especially if you came face to face with him, if he went eyeball to eyeball with you and threatened you, would you, in those days, especially with the probable mistrust of the police that the average person in the street had?

The sort of "I know where you live" threat.

Who can say?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Apprehensive

Possibly well off enough to disappear from his home life /family - "on business" .

Have a rented dwelling, in the area, could afford to stay in the area for weeks sussing things out, might have been reconning the area for months in order to be accepted as just another face in the area, gets to know the area relatively well.

He would dress as a normal working class man , probably a bit shabby as when/if challenged by people or police, would want to be accepted as perhaps, a drunk or tramp?

He's possibly got some sort of military knowledge, he seemed to be cool when evading, he's comfortable with killing at close quarters, albeit with an unarmed woman, it would still cause the average person to feel queasy doing what he did, possibly a retired military surgeon?

Anyway, he'd be strong and fit enough to move fast for distance.

Could it be that he is quite mad as well, goes into rages, imagine that he was seen occasionally, who would challenge or admit to having seen this mad man especially if you came face to face with him, if he went eyeball to eyeball with you and threatened you, would you, in those days, especially with the probable mistrust of the police that the average person in the street had?

The sort of "I know where you live" threat.

Who can say?

I'm not smelling a diary am I?

[Deathtosnails]

I've been thinking on this for a while. New profile for 'Jack'.

Male

English

20-30

Nothing obviously wrong physically or mentally or socially.

Can't afford to drink often, but binges when he can.

Lives with his family (mother, absent father, sisters), but they don't always notice when he's home or not. Has some form of a private entrance or area.

Missing any feelings of attachment or empathy.

Mixed feelings of lust and rage towards women. May be prone to violent outbursts, physically and verbally.

Very violent when he's had too much to drink. His normal inhibitions that keep his fantasy and veneer of social normality dissolve with each drink.

His first kill was Martha Tabram. It was unplanned. After the normal fear of being arrested at any moment his feelings changed to pleasure over the act and started to actively plan his next victim.

There is no plan to the cuts. He's raging on the body with the knife. After the rage dies down a bit he experiments with cutting. The removed body parts are a way to relive the pleasure of the act and shows he controls what is going on. He may be wary of hanging around the crime scenes, but will often walk past them.

Why did he stop? I don't think he did. He was afraid after the MJK act of being caught and went dormant. He couldn't stop completely though and there were later victims.

I think he died in 1889 or 1890 in a pub stabbing or random violence in a dark alley where he liked to frequent. Kind of fitting end.

My ramble for the day. No proof, just musings

[Cogidubnus]

Why English snails? With 40% of the local population immigrant Jewish, and a fair old percentage of the rest immigrant Irish (my own clan among them!) there's more than a fair chance he wan't...

All the best

Dave

[Ausgirl]

Okay - my stab at a profile, based on my present (and still a little spotty) knowledge of the case:

I tend to think of JtR as somebody who could 'switch it on and off', ie, a sociopathic, generally cool-headed type that would occasionally 'let himself go' when the need and/or opportunity arose, rather than being a foaming at the mouth psychotic. He could calmly arrange a dark spot for the kill, very quietly commit the murder, fiddle about in her guts, and then walk away from it all without being noticed - and did so, over and over. That takes control. So. Pretty much winging it, on this presumption...

He didn't have a stutter or facial deformity, I think, or with the all the hanging about he did in the area, it would have been remembered.

His chosen victims were known to drink, or known to have been drinking. He struck late at night, when they'd be tired and/or had a few gins. He probably used coercion rather than force to get them into a dark alley (or allowed himself to be coerced, as it were). He then blitz-attacked, quickly cut their throats - the important part of his need had nothing to do with them being alive, in my opinion, it was their dead bodies that got the brunt of his 'attention'. Success for him equalled killing fast and silently, so as to have more time to have his way with the body.

And by 'have his way' - I mean the mutilation, not sex. I've thought that maybe former crimes -could- have involved necrophilia of some sort, a sense of personal power developed from handling dead bodies, until he either lost access to handy ones and had to make his own, or simply escalated to wanting the thrill of interaction with 'warm ones', or bodies through which he could freely indulge his fantasies with less chance of being caught. Not sold on all that, but it's a thought.

I think he probably had a paraphilia concerned with internal organs. These, I think, were his 'prizes', not just trophies taken after other needs were satisfied but the need itself. He also literally 'defaced' some of his victims. Their faces, their personalities, were of no interest to him. He endeavoured to remove or obscure humanity, make them lumps of pleasing flesh rather than wishing to see them as individual women. Noses are almost essential to human facial recognition. The removal of noses is probably all about removal of recognisable humanity.

He wasn't concerned with looks, or age. I think what was important to him was expedience of death and the resulting warm body and, if he was lucky, some time to play with it.

I don't think he'd be able to have a normal relationship with a woman, though he might have tried and failed at some early point. Probably unmarried at time of canonical murders.

He probably grew up in an environment of domestic violence, in which the woman was both a 'faceless' object and his mother. He despises her utterly, and yet needs the sense of her proximity, all at once. I think this could be the source of his cannibalism (I do think he ate parts of the bodies) among other things.

He seems apparently unconcerned with the possibility of being caught. I think, though, that with each crime he became more confident, more comfortable with his routine. He learned as he went, I think, and was quite observant of the habitual movements and nature of the police. Again, it's all about time.

I don't think he had a lot of wealth. If he did, he'd have lured women to a home base that was not shared with a pile of other people, and thus would have more time.. I think he used the streets because it was most expedient. It's what he could afford, and it was very hit and miss. He hit the jackpot with Mary Kelly, though - for the first time, maybe, he could spend hours with a body instead of minutes, so he made the most of it while he could.

Which makes me wonder - since he was likely a killer that learned and evolved - whether the murder of Mary Kelly was not his last, but merely cathartic and thus the first of a new pattern in which he moved his act indoors somehow. Not necessarily in over-crowded Whitechapel. The next phase, if this is so, might involve missing women rather than bodies in the streets. Disposal via dismemberment, perhaps.

Anyway. Such are my ramblings, long after bed time. I reserve the right to change my mind at the drop of a bonnet.

[Observer]

Excellent post Ausgirl

[Wickerman]

A well thought out post.
Just a few comments...

He probably grew up in an environment of domestic violence, in which the woman was both a 'faceless' object and his mother.

This is often suggested for a wifebeater, but not necessarily for a serial killer.
We have Russell Williams, who was a Colonel in the Canadian military, he was happily married but raped & murdered two women, nothing abnormal about his childhood.
Where I have concerns about these 'classic profiling' methods is, they will sometimes point to a man who:
- had an abnormally violent childhood.
- a dominant father who beat his mother.
- a violent father who fought anybody.
- a dominant mother who mistreated him.
- a normal childhood.
Profiling has a 'classification' to meet any need, in other words, the killer is everyman.

He seems apparently unconcerned with the possibility of being caught.

He didn't leave any weapon behind, and no footprints in the blood, and no bloodtrail, be it handprints, footprints or dripping blood from something he removed. And, whatever he gave them to win their confidence, he took away with him.

I don't think he had a lot of wealth. If he did, he'd have lured women to a home base that was not shared with a pile of other people, and thus would have more time.. I think he used the streets because it was most expedient.

Local prostitutes worked their own turf. Taking an old prostitute to his room, if he was local, would take some explaining. Anyone in the street would see them together, or his own landlady, maybe the tenant nextdoor?
So really, this is not a practical alternative regardless of his personal worth.
And, if he lived out of Whitechapel then this is simply not an option.

In order for them to feel relaxed they must take the lead, they led him to their 'spot', and they knew the frequency of police beats. All he had to do was wait for a constable to pass, then he knew he had 15 minutes...

[Ausgirl]

A well thought out post.
Just a few comments...

Thank you. And you also, Observer.

This is often suggested for a wifebeater, but not necessarily for a serial killer.
We have Russell Williams, who was a Colonel in the Canadian military, he was happily married but raped & murdered two women, nothing abnormal about his childhood.
Where I have concerns about these 'classic profiling' methods is, they will sometimes point to a man who:
- had an abnormally violent childhood.
- a dominant father who beat his mother.
- a violent father who fought anybody.
- a dominant mother who mistreated him.
- a normal childhood.
Profiling has a 'classification' to meet any need, in other words, the killer is everyman.

Ah, but it's not 'classic' anything. It's just simple and probably (I've not a huge ego) quite simplistic logic.

People don't just up and choose to disembowel and deface women and scarper off with bits of their innards. There has to be a cause - whether this be organic (a tumour, severe schizophrenia) or environmental (abuse, etc).

I'm not discounting the organic option, but that is a bit dull. "He had a tumour, and stopped because he died of it". The end. It's possible, however I do like the sound of my own typing.

And also - he wasn't just killing -anyone- out there at random, so he had a particular motivation to choose a particular victim type. That he chose women and then did all the horrid doings he did, suggests to me a fixation. And those are developed, by and large, in early to middle childhood and evolve over time.

The fact his fixation is with dead women and guts, suggests this childhood was more than likely not sunshine and rainbows.

That he is primarily concerned with dead women suggests to me that living women bother him, probably intimidate him in some way, he doesn't prefer those at all. Liking dead ones is pretty extreme. Gutting them is, also. That's anger, but it's also power exertion. So I think JtR had a real issue with the state of feeling powerless and because he was focussed entirely on women I think this quite logically points to the probability that a woman was the cause of it, and she either angered him because she powerless (to protect him, to care for him, etc) or because she had too much power. Jury's actually still out on that one.

And the ground level woman in his life was his mother or mother-figure. I can't think of too many killers who gut or dismember women's bodies and also have a warm and cuddly relationship with Mummy.

His comfort with violence suggests long term exposure to it.

Hence, not a happy early home life. I could be wrong. But I might not be.

He didn't leave any weapon behind, and no footprints in the blood, and no bloodtrail, be it handprints, footprints or dripping blood from something he removed. And, whatever he gave them to win their confidence, he took away with him.

That's why I said 'seems apparently', with an implied 'however' in there somewhere.. . He was emphatically concerned with not being caught but also took a lot of risks to get precisely what he wanted.

Which is why I think the 'what he wanted' bit was exceedingly precise. He took risks to get it.

Come to think of it, I think this person was a bit like Dahmer, in that yes, he was mad as a hatter, but not so much that he couldn't protect himself or avoid being caught - look at Dahmer and the incident where a boy ran to police, and he convinced them to hand the boy back to him - cool as a cucumber. Jeffrey could also hold a job for a time and pay his bills. Jeffo was severely mentally ill, of course -- but he had his wits about him to large degree, also. He, however, had the advantage of a private place...

Local prostitutes worked their own turf. Taking an old prostitute to his room, if he was local, would take some explaining. Anyone in the street would see them together, or his own landlady, maybe the tenant nextdoor?
So really, this is not a practical alternative regardless of his personal worth.
And, if he lived out of Whitechapel then this is simply not an option.

In order for them to feel relaxed they must take the lead, they led him to their 'spot', and they knew the frequency of police beats. All he had to do was wait for a constable to pass, then he knew he had 15 minutes...

Ah, yes, I see your point.

[pinkmoon]

Any one on here married

Relax I'm not trying to get a date but to try and make a valid point about our killer.Call my wife old fashioned(I've called her far worse in the past) if I turned up in wee small hours with some human organs with me I think I would be a bit lost to explain to her what was going on.Also I think I would struggle to keep these organs some where the wife and kids wouldn't see them and as for the smell.Point is if the killer is taking organs away with him to keep at home he must be single and live alone.I'm no expert on matters of mental health but I will stick my neck out and say our killer might have one or a few mental health issues

[Wyatt Earp]

Relax I'm not trying to get a date but to try and make a valid point about our killer.Call my wife old fashioned(I've called her far worse in the past) if I turned up in wee small hours with some human organs with me I think I would be a bit lost to explain to her what was going on.Also I think I would struggle to keep these organs some where the wife and kids wouldn't see them and as for the smell.Point is if the killer is taking organs away with him to keep at home he must be single and live alone.I'm no expert on matters of mental health but I will stick my neck out and say our killer might have one or a few mental health issues

If the killer had a spouse or partner, it's possible she was in an abusive relationship and not willing to oppose him. It's also possible she was voluntarily complicit.

[Patrick S]

Male, 25 to 50 years old, had a serious issue with prostitutes.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Misunderstood, loveable rogue.

Either that or someone like Peter Sutcliffe. To the outside world just another bloke in the street; inwardly he harboured serious designs on violence and destruction.

Male, working, 25-35, not local to the immediate vicinity, not Jewish. I'll go for the clerkly type.

[ukranianphil]

Ive not been studying the case that long. Not as long as some of your guys,
But this is my profile:

He was a loner who lived in the area; he was single and had a problem with women. (i don't think Jack targeted prostitutes per say , i think it was just women he hated. it was just Whitechapel had it's fare share, so odds on he would kill them cause they were easy targets).
I think he worked. As most, if not all were done at the weekend.
He would have been about 25 to 35 years old. Socially backwards liked his own company. How else could he have got away with it?
I think he took no pleasure in his killings; It was an urge,Something he could not control. with each killing it got worse. I don't think he killed stride for that reason.

[Bridewell]

I don't think he killed stride for that reason.

Slightly ambiguous, Phil. Are you arguing that he didn't kill Stride, or that he did kill her - but not for that reason?