What's your profile for Jack?

[tji]

Hi all

I am sorry, have I missed something while being away?

While I agree no-one has any proof that Liz would likely take up being a prostitute, like prior convictions or anything like that...oh wait......

Also I believe the definition of prostitute today does not cover what was happening in 1888. We have read accounts of married woman having sex for money to feed their children etc, they may not be on the streets every night and it may only be an occasional occurrence, but does this not class her as a prostitute?

We know Liz was not against prostitution, that she had little money, that she was out late at night, I think the logical conclusion would be that she was likely trying to turn a trick, unless I really have missed something?

Tracy

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. Thanks.

Ah, the non-virginal. In that case, had any of the C5 given birth, I should have not looked for a bright star in the east, for I don't think THEY were virgins.

Now, I'm off to seek three wise men posting. (heh-heh)

You would only irritate them

Mike

[Michael W Richards]

Theorising that Liz Stride knocked on the door of the IWEC, was received, and then murdered by one it's members, would such theorising constitute leaping ahead of the evidence ?

Thats your theory, not mine. Not a great one either. What the evidence suggests is that Liz Stride was intentionally at that location at that time dressed nicely....when almost all of the "prospective clients" she might encounter left that site an hour before she arrived.

And it is extremely suspicious that Morris Eagle, who passed the spot where Liz is found dead at some time that evening, couldnt remember seeing anyone. If Liz isnt in that passage at that time, then she is out on the street....something Morris would have noticed since the street was all but deserted.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

I cant believe how many times The Facts need to be mentioned with respect to solicitation and the Canonicals......there is evidence that Polly and Annie were soliciting when they met their killer(s). They both claimed, in the middle of the night, that they needed to earn some doss money. Since neither had regular jobs, and it was the middle of the night, its clear they intended to earn by soliciting. There is not one scintilla of evidence that the same situation applied to Kate, or Liz, or Mary. In fact we know Liz had regular employment leading up to her death, and we know Mary was in her own room and bed when she is attacked.

Of course anyone of them needed money, 4 of the 5 of them were Unfortunates without a guaranteed home each night. Thats not a sound basis for declaring what witnesses saw of Liz, Kate and Mary that night was solicitation. For all any of us know none of those 3 were soliciting on the night they were murdered, and I put forward that as far as Jack the Ripper victims go, soliciting alone at night is a key element to his victim selection.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

Polly Nichols was never seen with a man. Yet she was soliciting. Stride was seen speaking with and approaching numerous men. There's actually more evidence with which to conclude Stride was soliciting than Nichols. As for paying 'particular attention to her appearance', why should it be assumed this was not habitual for her? She was a bit better off than the other women. Nichols obtained a new dress and bonnet in spite of her worse circumstances. She believed this would land her more customers and more money. Make her stand out. Perhaps Stride's 'gussying up' is actually evidence of soliciting instead of evidence to the contrary as you suggest.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I think that Lynn answered the above Tom already, but as Ive said numerous times, the only 2 Canonicals we know were soliciting were Polly and Annie.....since they both admitted as much to friends the night(s) that they are killed. There is no such confirmation from Stride, there is only what many assume she was doing at that address. There

As I mentioned, the highest incidence of sexually transmitted diseases found in men at the time of the murders, by employment, were Dockworkers. It stands top reason that the women they caught them from was unclean street prostitutes. Liz changed from her day work clothes to go out that night, she had on what is described by another lodginghouse mate "her good evening wear", she requested a lint brush for her skirt, and she had a flower arrangement on her jacket and mints in her hand when she is killed inside the gates at 40 Berner Street.

That seems in keeping with what I suggested, that on that night she paid particular attention to her appearance. You and others may assume it was to pick up dockworkers, I see that preening evidence differently.

Cheers Tom

[Observer]

Hello Michael. Thanks.

Ah, the non-virginal. In that case, had any of the C5 given birth, I should have not looked for a bright star in the east, for I don't think THEY were virgins.

Now, I'm off to seek three wise men posting. (heh-heh)

Well you already got the sheep for the manger.

[lynn cates]

silly

Hello (again) CD. Sorry about the silly face. Tried to remove it; don't know whence it came.

Bloody computers.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

oracle

Hello CD. Thanks.

Yes, you should have.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Epiphany

Hello Michael. Thanks.

Ah, the non-virginal. In that case, had any of the C5 given birth, I should have not looked for a bright star in the east, for I don't think THEY were virgins.

Now, I'm off to seek three wise men posting. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

I think many of our firmly ensconced positions depend on our leaping ahead of the evidence.

Theorising that Liz Stride knocked on the door of the IWEC, was received, and then murdered by one it's members, would such theorising constitute leaping ahead of the evidence ?

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

Ah, the old mediaeval disputation response. I should have seen that one coming.

c.d.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.

"they were all experienced prostitutes"

Evidence?

Is someone who built a home an experienced home-builder?

Mike

[lynn cates]

St Thomas Cates

Hello CD. Thanks.

Very simple answer. In mediaeval disputation there are 3 standard replies to a proposition.

1. Concedo (I grant it).

2. Nego ( I deny it).

3. Dubito (I doubt it).

My position vis-à-vis Liz and solicitation is, quite obviously, #3. I make no wild claims concerning her not soliciting; but, neither do I make wild claims that she was.

I think many of our firmly ensconced positions depend on our leaping ahead of the evidence.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Michael.

"they were all experienced prostitutes"

Evidence?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Rather than repeating that question over and over again perhaps you could put forth some evidence showing why you believe that they they never engaged in prostitution or were not soliciting at the time they were killed.

I suggest this respectfully as opposed to it being sarcasm.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

evidence

Hello Michael.

"they were all experienced prostitutes"

Evidence?

Cheers.
LC