Yes, Colin.
That's much better !
All the best
What's your profile for Jack?
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Originally posted by Beowulf View PostOh, I know that. It's not proveable but an interesting thought.
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Originally posted by Bridewell View PostThis sort of thing?
[ATTACH]15307[/ATTACH]
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Originally posted by GregBaron View PostHi Abby et al,
I've never got a good visual on the peaked cap. Do you think it more of
a newsboy that is soft enough to peak with your fingers or a more rigid
sailor type hat that came to a point?
Don't laugh, this may be the key to the case...
Greg
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Originally posted by Errata View PostIt's not uncommon in serial killers. Serious frontal lobe injuries can result in psychopathology. And there are a lot of delusions that come about from the effects of a head injury. Anyone with a head injury that resulted in a loss of consciousness could have sustained brain damage significant enough to cause delusion or psychopathy, at least on a short term basis.
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To Errata : JF could well have the capgras.
To Robert : agreed.
To Greg : more for a yachtman.
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Not all peaks are created equal...
My bet is the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night.
I've never got a good visual on the peaked cap. Do you think it more of
a newsboy that is soft enough to peak with your fingers or a more rigid
sailor type hat that came to a point?
Don't laugh, this may be the key to the case...
Greg
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Originally posted by Garry Wroe View PostSorry to disagree, Abby, but the ‘you would say anything but your prayers’ remark was more likely a jocular response to an exaggeration or patent falsehood uttered by Stride, a woman who we know was prone to gilding the lily.
Personally, Abby, since there remains considerable doubt that Stride was even a Ripper victim, I have long thought it unwise to include the Berner Street crime in any serious attempt to evaluate the Whitechapel Murderer’s personality and behavioural characteristics.
Thanks for the response but I disagree. The mans statement would make no sense unless it was preceded by a Stride comment that contained the word prayer in it.
Also, there is little doubt in my mind that Stride was a victim of the ripper. A man wearing apeaked cap was seen by several witnesses that night-the broad shouldered man seen attacking Liz and the man talking to Eddowes along with the man who was heard making the prayer statement. My bet is the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night.
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Originally posted by DVV View PostFleming thought one of the medics was an old Jewish acquaintance ("Isaacs") with whom he used to play coconut shy in Bethnal Green.
He was about to be released when he started ranting like this.
And finally died in Claybury 25 years later.
I think mental illness or neurological disorder is likely somewhere in the mix. But not the typical ones. I don't think he was Schizophrenic, Bipolar, Manic, whatever. I don't think he was recognizably mad, and while there are many mental illnesses that fly below the radar, those same illnesses have to be spectacular for murder to be involved. Nor do I think any of the spectacular problems were in play, because frankly people notice those and comment on those. Capgras does not fly below the radar. But obsession can be masked, psychopathy can be masked, any number of issues involving paranoia are masked as a matter of course, disinhibition is a common result of a brain injury but can easily be masked by simply compartmentalizing one's life. Another common result of brain injury is explosive rage. So while I don't think Jack was "mad" in any way recognizable at the time, I think it's entirely probable that there was a condition that contributed to these crimes. I think the impulses were his, but I think it's possible that he lost the ability to control them through no fault of his own. Capgras always leads to violence, which is perfectly understandable if you look at it from the Capgras sufferer's point of view. It doesn't come from a person's deep seated desires to murder those close to them. It's self defense. I don't think Jack is like that. I think he had the desire. What he lacked was the permission or confidence to carry it off. Getting nailed in the forehead and losing the ability to empathize could have given him the permission he had otherwise lacked. For example.
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Originally posted by Beowulf View PostInteresting. So, I should add to my profile JTR possible head injury
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misidentification
Originally posted by Errata View PostPerhaps, since I imagine if you feel like someone you love is replaced with an imposter that has to feel like persecution. I would certainly think paranoia would work it's way somewhere int to description. Today it is categorized as a "delusional misidentification disorder".
He was about to be released when he started ranting like this.
And finally died in Claybury 25 years later.
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Originally posted by Errata View PostCapgras Syndrome, or Capgras Delusion is a neurological disorder common in paranoid schizophrenia, sometimes resulting from a profound head injury or dementia, somewhat similar to prosopagnosia, but instead of face blindness, it consists of emotional blindness connected to a face. Sufferers believe that their loved ones are in fact imposters.
It's really only considered remarkable when the sufferer was not otherwise delusional. Otherwise it just tends to be shuffled into a general pattern of madness. Michael Cleary was likely not otherwise delusional, or they simply would have reported that in his madness he burned his wife alive. Likely this was brought on by a head injury, thyroid problems, or some kind of toxicity. But, not simple superstition.
And yes. I did a paper on Capgras. And I felt a desperate need to apply the knowledge I've been hanging on to for the last 15 years. Maybe now I can clear that out and make room for something else, like cupcake recipes or advanced thermodynamics.
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Originally posted by DVV View PostNow that's interesting.
I suppose capgras was unknown in 1888.
How do you think it would have been called ?
Delusions of persecution ?
(That's in Fleming's file, who knew - at least - one of the victims)
But Capgras (the man who named the disease) was alive at the time and had been researching (if my High School French holds up) psychoses of interpretation... wait you're French, I can just paste this. Les Folies raisonnantes, Les Psychoses à base d'interprétations délirantes, and Délire d’interprétation de Sérieux et Capgras. Serieux being his mentor. Now most of those papers date to the turn of the century, but the behaviors had been described previously, just not organized into an actual categorized separate disease. But the condition is quite rare, and it occurs predominantly in women.
The major downside to this theory is that Capgras only is applied to people the sufferer knows well. He never thinks his bus driver is an alien, he thinks his kids are. It because when we see the face of someone we care about we have an emotional recognition. People with Capgras have no emotional recognition, so they try to explain why their loved one looks like their loved one but is clearly a stranger. Because if they were not a stranger they would have that emotional connection. So if Jack killed because he had Capgras, he had also killed his family before moving on to friends, assuming he was friends with these women. So Jack killed his wife, his kids, his parents, before he killed these prostitutes. If he had Capgras.
But if you want to read up on a really fascinating disorder, try Jumping Frenchmen of Maine, which I think would make a great killer in a book. There's another good one where people get jolted on the subway, or trip over an object, and think that their soul fell out but I can't remember the name of that one offhand.
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