How many victims?

[Abby Normal]

Look at the Thames Torso victims that predate the Whitechapel series. The killer was dismembering and dissecting his victims as early as 1873. There was evidentially a degree of anatomical knowledge and lack of frenzy to this series. The same can be said for the canonical Ripper murders.

The signature elements of these murders are not congruent with the frenzied/picquerist stabbing of Martha Tabram.

good point Harry
and its one of the main sticklers for me for including her also, in either series. but to me the similarities far outweigh the differences, especially if your just looking at the ripper series alone.

[The Macdonald Triad]

In terms of early victims, I'm unconvinced by Emma Smith or Martha Tabram. There's a chance that Smith lied about her attackers because she was soliciting, but her murder has the signs of a sexual assault. Although JTR's motives may have been sexual, there was no sexual element to the canonical murders. Tabram's proximity to the first canonical murder in both time and place is problematic, but her injuries evinced either uncontrollable rage or picquerism. It's difficult to believe that JTR was "experimenting" when he stabbed her 39 times. These are not signature elements of the other Whitechapel murders, and I would argue this takes precedence over the fact she was a prostitute and her skirts were raised. Violence is an occupational hazard for prostitutes, and it would hardly be unnatural for her skirts to be raised in this position.

I like how you changed M.O to "signature elements." Going to have to remember that one. I will say that I am not sure how many victims there were. The fact that the C5 are only the C5 because of Mcnaughten is quite remarkable. Kelly showed us that when given more time how much he changes. His signature element to me is the blitz attack, killing as fast as possible. It's almost like TK and the Ripper knew each other and were trying to outdo each other. If they weren't one and the same.

[Harry D]

I like how you changed M.O to "signature elements." Going to have to remember that one. I will say that I am not sure how many victims there were. The fact that the C5 are only the C5 because of Mcnaughten is quite remarkable. Kelly showed us that when given more time how much he changes. His signature element to me is the blitz attack, killing as fast as possible. It's almost like TK and the Ripper knew each other and were trying to outdo each other. If they weren't one and the same.

Ha, well there is a distinction between the two. "MO" refers to the practical aspects of the murders, how the killer executes his crimes, for example, a killer stalking his victims, carrying out a sudden "blitz" attack, or pretending to be in need like Bundy did, whereas the "signature" is the ritualistic elements, such as post-mortem mutilations, victim posing, leaving messages/signs etc.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Ha, well there is a distinction between the two. "MO" refers to the practical aspects of the murders, how the killer executes his crimes, for example, a killer stalking his victims, carrying out a sudden "blitz" attack, or pretending to be in need like Bundy did, whereas the "signature" is the ritualistic elements, such as post-mortem mutilations, victim posing, leaving messages/signs etc.

Ritual and Signature in Serial Sexual Homicide | Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law (jaapl.org)

Notwithstanding numerous anecdotal case reports, ritual and signature have rarely been studied empirically. In a national sample of 38 offenders and their 162 victims, we examined behavioral and thematic consistency, as well as the evolution and uniqueness of these crime scene actions. The notion that serial sexual murderers engage in the same rituals and leave unique signatures at every scene was not supported by our data. In fact, the results suggest that the crime scene conduct of this group of offenders is fairly complex and varied.