Coincidence?

[packers stem]

Yes but I’m not suggesting a relevance in the fact that she used the name Kelly. Kelly might have been a name that she used regularly for all we know and this seems a reasonable, plausible possibility when you consider her relationship with John Kelly. You might prefer the Dan Brown method but that’s up to you of course.

I doubt even Dan Brown would write a novel where the last two victims of a serial killer used the same pseudonym

[Joshua Rogan]

As for your first point
The opinion of a PC is only as relevant as anybody else's , it doesn't carry extra weight

i tend to think that the opinion of someone who's job included locking up drunk people and releasing them when sober would be more relevant than most, but each to their own.
.

When someone is so drunk they can't stand without assistance then head hitting the pillow = out for the night in my opinion and many others would share that view .
I'm sure many of us have been similarly drunk on occasion through our lives

But we only have Robinson's opinion of how drunk she was, and as that is no more relevant than anyone elses, perhaps Kate was not actually as drunk as you seem to think.

The second point I really don't get other than it shows that Hutt contradicted himself

You asked when the inspector made the decision, i was merely pointing out that in his absence there were others who were empowered to make the call.

Still doesn't help us understand where Collard had disappeared to or why

Perhaps they were just being polite and the inspector was out paying a visit to the shitter?

[packers stem]

i tend to think that the opinion of someone who's job included locking up drunk people and releasing them when sober would be more relevant than most, but each to their own.
.


But we only have Robinson's opinion of how drunk she was, and as that is no more relevant than anyone elses, perhaps Kate was not actually as drunk as you seem to think.



You asked when the inspector made the decision, i was merely pointing out that in his absence there were others who were empowered to make the call.



Perhaps they were just being polite and the inspector was out paying a visit to the shitter?

You've clearly not come across drunk people too often .... they always like to get up after 3 and a half hours and wander aimlessly in the rain looking for money that was completely unnecessary had they stopped singing, rolled over and gone back to sleep.

Robinsons observations are quite different in that he had to pick her up off the floor and get help to carry her to the station.... it's a physical thing ,not an opinion matter .

Like i said ,Hutt contradicted himself if that was the case ..... maybe they could have waited until he'd finished in the shitter ?

[Sam Flynn]

Well then, I respect your opinion, but I struggle to dismiss such a coincidence as thoroughly as you.

I'm not dismissing a coincidence. I'm accepting a coincidence.

[Sam Flynn]

Kelly might have been a name that she used regularly for all we know and this seems a reasonable, plausible possibility when you consider her relationship with John Kelly.

Precisely.

[Sam Flynn]

As I learnt much to my chargin, the fire engine was a later embellishment

Indeed. One of many embellishments, I suspect.

[Joshua Rogan]

Like i said ,Hutt contradicted himself if that was the case

No he didn't.

Daily News 12 Oct;
"It is left to the discretion of the inspector whether the prisoner is sober enough to be discharged, or to the discretion of the station sergeant of the inspector has gone out visiting."

[Sam Flynn]

Florence's insider info came from the daughter of her friend and fellow painter, Violet Overton-Fuller.

Regardless of the source, the Pash connection hinges on the (highly dubious, if not false) identification of Mary Jane Kelly as the nanny of Annie Crook's daughter.

[Trapperologist]

Regardless of the source, the Pash connection hinges on the (highly dubious, if not false) identification of Mary Jane Kelly as the nanny of Annie Crook's daughter.

I thought that was a later addition to the original story that hasn't been disproved. Didn't Pash say Mary was nannying an unnamed illegitimate child of Sickert's? Pash and Sickert supposedly met in or around 1885. Doesn't the timeline fit with Mary?

[JeffHamm]

Ah, I remember now, Mary Ann Connolly, otherwise known as Pearly Poll! So Catherine's alias of "Mary Ann Kelly", also corresponds in two names to someone who wasn't a victim of anyone, although was out with Martha Tabram on the night she was killed. And of course we have Mary Ann Nichols, the first of the C5. The name "Mary" seems quite common, and the combination "Mary Ann" seems quite common too, and not just common with victims, but with non-victims as well. Which is what you would expect to find if Catherine's choice of alias was just to pick a common random name, making it a coincidence. A bit of a spooky one, but a coincidence nonetheless.

- Jeff

[FISHY1118]

I thought that was a later addition to the original story that hasn't been disproved. Didn't Pash say Mary was nannying an unnamed illegitimate child of Sickert's? Pash and Sickert supposedly met in or around 1885. Doesn't the timeline fit with Mary?

Indeed it hasn't been disproved , Florence Pash cannot be dismissed lightly.

[Monty]

He was ' out visiting ' at 1am
Just wondering who he may be likely to visit at this hour

Beat Sergeants, as would be his duties.

Monty

[Monty]

No he didn't.

Daily News 12 Oct;
"It is left to the discretion of the inspector whether the prisoner is sober enough to be discharged, or to the discretion of the station sergeant of the inspector has gone out visiting."

Yep. Byfield had the final call as Charging Officer.

Monty

[etenguy]

This is an extract from a post made by Wolf Vanderlinden (post #34 in the 2009 thread - Kate's choice of "Mary Ann Kelly"

I found this information interesting.

Evidence that Catherine Eddowes called herself Kelly can be found all over the news reports of the day:

The body that was found in Mitre-square has been positively identified as that of a woman named Kelly…
The Star, 3 October, 1888.

All doubt as to the identification of the victim of the Mitre-square murder has now been removed. Her real name is Catherine Edowes (sic), but she was best known as Catharine Kelly.
The Daily Telegraph, 4 October, 1888.

On Thursday the inquest on Catherine Eddowes, alias Kelly…
The City Press, 6 October, 1888.

The adjourned inquest on the body of Catherine Eddowes, alias Kelly…
The St. James Gazette, 12 October, 1888.

It’s obvious that Eddowes was known as Kelly and that she took the name from John Kelly her common law “husband” of some seven years. Nothing more needs to be read into that. As I also pointed out Eddowes must have known Kelly’s ex-wife Mary Anne Kelly – the name she gave at Bishopsgate Police Station.

[Losmandris]

Can Sutcliffe's victims all be placed living (or staying) on the same side of one street within 10 doors ?

Any other 'serial killer' who's last two victims both used the same pseudonym on the night they died?

Any other serial killer cut out organs at the roadside in darkness?

There are reasons aplenty why JTR is very different to the typical late 20th century serial killers that people seek to pigeon hole him into

Equally the case is so unique in the fact that there are so many gaps in, just asking to be filled with conspiracy and tales. Amazing that none of this kind of this speculation actually happened at the time or just after the events (fair enough some fingers were pointed at valid suspects, but that was about it) . That its is only now a 130 years later are people coming out with this stuff, when the mists of time, light fingered coppers and the Luftwaffe have done away with any relevant evidence that could have possibly been useful, that it all comes out. I am sure that if someone was spouted off this kind of stuff in the 1890s they would have been rapidly sent to the local asylum.

Tristan