What kind of knives were used?

[Hunter]

Hi Mike,

The Inquest records and offline medical expert statements seem to indicate that the man that killed Polly and Annie, if the same person, had to have knowledge of anatomy. And some experience with a knife.

One would be hard pressed to find evidence of anatomical knowledge displayed in the murder and mutilations of Mary Ann Nichols.

From the Nichols Inquest Summation by Baxter, in no particular order;
"...there are other dreadful injuries in both cases; and those injuries, again, have in each case been performed with anatomical knowledge."

I think Baxter had a motive for reaching his conclusion.

In the Eddowes Inquest Dr. Sequiera says;
"I think that the murderer had no design on any particular organ of the body. He was not possessed of any great anatomical skill."

Brown states;

"The way in which the kidney was cut out showed that it was done by somebody who knew what he was about,"...."He must have had a good deal of knowledge as to the position of the abdominal organs, and the way to remove them. "

I think what can be concluded from the above is that it is unclear whether the perpetrator of the Eddowes murder had skill equal to that shown by the killer(s) of Polly and Annie, and that no physician associated the "object" (objective) of her murder with either of the 1st 2 Canonicals.

I believe there are many misconceptions about that.

[lynn cates]

cutting remarks

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"Do you believe that statement by him is credible?"

I do indeed. And I believe it was shown him by Bagster.

I think that, if we could go back to the original post mortems, all of us would be astounded at the difference in Polly and Annie on the one hand and Kate on the other.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

advising

Hello Jon.

"Baxter's comment appears to have been influenced by Dr Phillips because Dr FG Brown doesn't appear to make that claim.
Just for the moment I can't see where Phillips put forth that opinion."

I would presume that Dr. Phillips advised him privately, perhaps even showing him the mutilations.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

interruption

Hello Mike. Thanks for that.

My only disagreement with Baxter concerns interruption. There is no reason to suppose Polly's assailant was interrupted.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Interruption

There is no reason to suppose Polly's assailant was interrupted.

Cue Lechmere and / or Fisherman.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Errata]

The problem is that we are dealing with a lot of doctors and coroners. If one ME had examined all the bodies, we could be confident of any assertion that one showed expertise and another didn't. But a lot of times it comes down to which coroners had imagination and which didn't. A doctor with a dim view of humanity (and there were no shortage of them) could conclude that experience or expertise was required to remove a uterus simply because he didn't think anyone other than a doctor would be able to find the uterus. Or that experience was a necessity because the killer didn't completely trash the surrounding organs. Another doctor could conclude that since the cuts were not mathematically precise that the killer was a rank amateur. A coroner with imagination would be able to see that a man with middling knife skills and no professional knowledge of anatomy could commit these murders if the he also had imagination and curiosity. Differing levels of skill can be attributed to any number of factors other than a different man committing the crime.

Unfortunately, a compelling case can be made for almost any scenario given that we just don't have detailed autopsy evidence. Could he have tried to take a head? I suppose so. But we don't know because we don't know what damage was done to the spine other than the exterior vertebrae. If I knew that he had managed to core out a cervical disk, or if there was damage on the interior of the vertebrae, then a decapitation attempt would be fairly obvious. Personally, I think if he was going to take a head he would have, simply because in the end is not that difficult. Well, less difficult than an arm or a leg. But there is nothing in the injuries of about 10 victims that could immediately exclude the Ripper. A few doubts can be cast, but nothing solid.

[Rubyretro]

Cue Lechmere and / or Fisherman.

Regards, Bridewell.

Well, of course there are good reasons to think that Polly's killer was interrupted..but if you want, Bridewell, we can make up any old crap while Lechmere & Fisherman are elsewhere, just for fun...

what alternative do you suggest ?

[lynn cates]

authority

Hello Errata. Indeed. But Phillips was given preeminence here. Later on, he seems to have seen/been shown wounds simply by way of comparison. I daresay he even saw Kate's.

And certainly Baxter would be conversant with the wounds.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

por que?

Hello Ruby. But why make ANYTHING up? What is the need?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Hello Ruby. But why make ANYTHING up? What is the need?

Cheers.
LC

I think that was said 'tongue-in-cheek', Lynn, in response to my somewhat frivolous post.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Rubyretro]

I think that was said 'tongue-in-cheek', Lynn, in response to my somewhat frivolous post.

Regards, Bridewell.

It was indeed, Bridewell !

[lynn cates]

abatoir

Hello Colin. Thanks.

I see. I hadn't fully divined your attitude towards the tenants.

Cheers.
LC

[Beowulf]

Hi Errata,

Are you able to post an image of a "head knife" for evaluation?

Regards, Bridewell.

Here is a picture of an antique head knife. They seem to be pretty much the same as today's head knives.

How do you carry this without sheafing it?

[Errata]

Here is a picture of an antique head knife. They seem to be pretty much the same as today's head knives.

How do you carry this without sheafing it?

I don't think that was the knife. I submitted it for gruesome factor, not for serious consideration.

[Scott Nelson]

The entirety of the Whitechaple Murders was done with a single set of toenail clippers.