How did he do it?

[Rubyretro]

1 & 2 modus ponens

? I'm afraid I'm not an academic like you, Lynn.

can you pose your question in plain English please.

[lynn cates]

method of laying it down

Hello Ruby. Stands to reason? Well, perhaps.

Try this:

1. If JTR existed, then he killed at least 5 women in 1888. premise

2. JTR existed. premise

Conclusion: JTR killed at least 5 women in 1888. 1 & 2 modus ponens

Valid argument? Of course! Stands to reason? Indeed. Convincing regarding its conclusion? No.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

Lynn -the word is 'reasoning' if you wish.

It stands to reason that the Canonicals + Tabram were by the same serial killer.....and most probably more.

[lynn cates]

logic

Hello Ruby.

"Logic!"

Umm, you mean reasoning? Yes indeed. Of course, any chain of reasoning--inductive or deductive--is no better than the premises assumed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

none

Hello Red.

"2 serial killers in the same year? Same city? Same neighborhood?"

No, I'd say zero serial killers. After all, Dr. Bond saw ONE victim; Sir MLM came 6 months late.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

2 serial killers in the same year? Same city? Same neighborhood? Killing in close to the same fashion ie. with a knife.
Thats too far fetched for me. I could maybe understand that each women killed was killed by a different person every time, but even that is a long shot.
There was just too many women killed, so close in time and distance, and in remotely the same manner for me even begin to believe that.
To many similarities in the cases and just plain too many murders for them all to be coincidences. Theyre connected in my opinion.

OMG ! Logic ! (I'd started to think that it was fast disappearing from some of these threads ).

ps: I think the most interesting discussions that we should be having here, is not which victims should be discounted as being 'Jack's'
but rather which of the non-canonicals should be counted in (and for me Tabram is a cert, it is which of the others...?)

[RedBundy13]

2 serial killers in the same year? Same city? Same neighborhood? Killing in close to the same fashion ie. with a knife.
Thats too far fetched for me. I could maybe understand that each women killed was killed by a different person every time, but even that is a long shot.
There was just too many women killed, so close in time and distance, and in remotely the same manner for me even begin to believe that.
To many similarities in the cases and just plain too many murders for them all to be coincidences. Theyre connected in my opinion.

[DVV]

Two killers, aaarff.
One must be Hutch.
Hutch cannot be anyone but Netley, natürlich.
Groom, coach, it's all the same, uh ?

[Malcolm X]

Why are we wasting time looking for JTR then ? We should be looking for
"the other bloke"....
(I'm certain that some would say, that everything's always his fault anyway)

The other bloke isn't as interesting is he, plus it's too much work to investigate him as well

in fact, it could be 3 blokes, because dont forget that we have the torsos as well !

we have murders before and then after JTR, so they're quite well spread out, so it could be ONE PERSON building up to JTR then backing off from this horror afterwards, to what he once was.

it just depends how much you believe in this FBI profiling stuff etc etc, i'm not sure because quite a few serial killers switch M.O to avoid detection.

this is a huge problem for one suspect, because he must never kill again... ever and unfortunately the street murders carry on after MJK dont they.

this other killer will be at least 80 before it's safe to kill again, that is, until every copper that knows what he looks like, is either dead or too old to remember...... oh dear, yes !

but BTK stopped killing for years on end too, yes and this is just about the only example/excuse that i have, but of course; he never stopped completely did he !

[Rubyretro]

i very much doubt we have one killer only, in fact, it looks like the other bloke killed far more,

Why are we wasting time looking for JTR then ? We should be looking for
"the other bloke"....
(I'm certain that some would say, that everything's always his fault anyway)

[Malcolm X]

My father died of Cancer 2 years ago and when he did i threw out all my old books, i had a massive clean up, i was finished with JTR.... well so i thought.

but now i'm back here i'm relying on memory only, plus looking on this website and this website is a nightmare to find stuff quickly, there's loads of stuff missing too, especially with regards to MJK, i cant remember what, i just know it is

i very much doubt we have one killer only, in fact, it looks like the other bloke killed far more, it's about 12:5, that is if JTR stuck rigidly to his M.O/Signature.....not sure, one of these killers could easily be a catalyst for the other to start killing, but due to the revolting nature of JTR, it is quite obvious that he is totally unique and there is nobody else around that he can copy, because nobody else is as sick as him !

1....gutting victims is seen often in history, well before JTR
2....he needs to gut them to access the organs below.

this does not apply to MJK because this is way OTT, yes very true indeed, but he's indoors with hours to spend, so the horror he inflicts is directly in proportion to the time he has..... JTR has from 4am till 5.30 am inside, but only 5 mins with Eddowes and 10 seconds with Stride.

why is her heart removed ?..... yes very strange, very occult, very trophy and for the right person, it's worth a lot of money!.....the more infamous the murder is, the more her heart is worth.

Voila' little by little i'm sussing him out.

[curious4]

Serial killer

Hello Red,

I think they did come to the conclusion that they were dealing with one killer fairly early on, even if the term "serial killer" hadn´t been invented at the time.

Best wishes,
C4

[RedBundy13]

Im not saying it couldnt happen but all those murders commited so close to one another? Come on, does anyone else see this as a pretty big coincidence? While I can admit that maybe murders were a little more commen back then(maybe?) Still, what are the chances of there being that many women Killed within that short of time, that close to one another and not have them be connected?
Would anyone else find it strange if this happened today in your city? That many women killed by multiple people, to me it seems more than a coincidence. Why would all those men decide to kill women all around the same time, all using a knife?
Before these murders how many prostitutes were killed in a year? Ok, now look at after these murders, same case, you dont see anything that is like this for quite a few years.
Maybe there was something in the water in '87','88' & '89' that made people kill more frequently than normal or maybe some other reason?
Back then serial killers were not known, so of course the police would automatically assume the murders were not connected. They had never seen or heard of one man that would kill just for the pleasure of it.
I think if this happened now adays most people would assume that it was a serial killer even before it was proved to be or not to be. That is the question...

[Wickerman]

Or someone who hadn't gone even out with murder on his mind to begin with?

I could quite believe that Frank.
The first time he is pursuing some satisfaction, whether he was a complete novice, a mugger, or a medical student. When actually faced with his first confrontation (Millwood?) where he pulled a knife he may have been in a state of shock himself.
Only later after a few more confrontations his confidence is restored.
And, if he was a medical student sooner or later his expertise will come to the fore.
Not that I think he was medically trained, but, either way, although he might have been familiar with the sight of blood, the stress and terror of the victim could be both shocking to him and a stimulant. Eventually this aspect will become a source of adrenaline.

I mean he doesn't need to be the skilled operator from 'day 1'.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

paradigm

Hello Jon.

"yes, we must uphold the paradigm, sorry 'bout that..."

Don't be sorry. I, for one, would be delighted to see the paradigm blown sky high.

Cheers.
LC