Serial Killers, A pattern???

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

Ha ha, the more I learn of it the more I ask why????

Their theory still doesnt make any sense to me. What do you think???

Hello corey,

It isn't a theory as such at the moment, it is an "ongoing work"...
but we believe it IS opening up possibilities that haven't been properly or fully looked into.
It's outside the box. But it's plausible. And a darn sight better (imho) than Druitt!

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

political

Hello Corey. If you hear of 2 gangland slayings, say in Chicago and in a close suburb, and given that both victims had their hands tied and a bullet in the back of the head, does it necessarily imply the same gunman? Or in Northern Ireland in the time of troubles, if 2 chaps were found kneecapped and dead, did it follow there was only 1 attacker? And yet, how about those MO's?

Can any killing be as violent as a political one?

The best.
LC

[mattwill]

Yeah, look at the St. Valentines Day Massacre. After those guys were murdered the killers totally ripped them open and stole organs to sell on the black market.

Seriously though, during the Torso slayings there were talks that some of the killings were related to the mob, especially ones found in the tarpits a few years later. But seriously, all of them? Some people around here talk as if there's no such thing as a serial killer. If only the world could be so lucky.

[DVV]

It isn't a theory as such at the moment, it is an "ongoing work"...
It's outside the box. But it's plausible. And a darn sight better (imho) than Druitt!

Phil

Hi Phil,

with all due respect:you can't compare your "ongoing work" with one suspect. It makes no sense.
You can just compare the idea of several copy-cats to the theory of a lone killer.
And the latter stills more likely, by far.

Amitiés, best wishes,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

Thanks for the comment, I can see where you are coming from.. but it was actually said more in "half jest" than anything else.

However, the reference I made to Druitt has it's merits I believe, in the fact that only one major player involved came up with this theory, backed up by HIS "private info" which nobody else ever saw, or knew about (to our knowledge) and also that comment being from a man admitting to destroying all his papers on the case. (Macnaghten)

So the lone killer Druitt is (imho) based upon unverifiable evidence from one person alone. And he offers no factual evidence.
In George Sims, he (Macnaghten) had his "public" outlet, and it all smacks to these ears of a smoke screen. "This will keep them quiet"...

Looking at the following 4 names from those involved, we have been given conflicting views. Macnaghten, Anderson, Littlechild, Abberline.

I'm sorry, but if an organ is supposedly working in sync within its own community, either publically, or indeed privately amongst themselves, then one would have thought that they would have agreed to "know" who JTR was. But no. They split off in all directions, some saying they knew, one saying "he only thought he knew", one saying that he "knew all about that but..." and one who's comments have been considered to be an out and out lie!

I believe Macnaghten's Druitt view was a smokescreen, with the help of his friend Sims, to keep the masses quiet..

Abberline's view had nothing to do with the contemporary view of JTR at the time of the killings. But it DOES tell us that in his view JTR was NOT caught, incarcerated or dead at the time or shortly afterwards.

That contradicts both Macnaghten (Druitt) and Anderson (Kosminski).

Littlechild's view is of one the SD (CID) had their suspicions about at the time. And the interesting thing about that letter, imho, is this..

George Sims, contacts Littlechild (High up in the CID) and asks about JTR suspects after Anderson (the head of the CID) had put into print his views with such certainty, KNOWING that he (Sims himself) had helped spread and tell the Druitt story many times in various comments through newspapers and the like.

Because if Macnaghten DID know the "truth" (Druitt), he wouldn't need to ask about any other suspect. But Anderson then came out with the Kosminsky stuff, which rather blew Sims' public help of Macnaghten's theory out of the water. So Sims now has two different theories to contend with. And that is made worse by Littlechild talking about a new man, Tumblety, and that Anderson "only thought he knew" the truth.
Umm, either there are some massive ego's at work here, or the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, or ALL of them are playing a smokescreen, to avoid the real centre of attention, or to paste over their own ineptitude.

Smokescreening... THAT, is typical CID work. And given that Littlechild said "he only thought he knew" about Anderson's suspect in private correspondance to Sims, tells me that the CID went down totally different avenues than those known by the public. And who was in charge of the CID at the time of the murders? Anderson. And who was in charge of the case anyway? Anderson.
It is totally reasonable to assume, imho, that Anderson with both "hats" on, put into practice or ordered some of the same techniques from CID in his hunt for the Ripper as he would have in his other CID work. Use of undercover people on the ground, bobbies dressing up as women, bobbies sneaking around in soft heeled shoes, etc etc.

I don't like the word "conspiracy". I don't like the phrase "cover-up". But I do like the word "smokescreen". And it isn't a wierd thought to see the use of such if the CID are involved. And because of the political and social tension in the area at the time, CID were crawling all over Whitechapel anyway. (Re Fenians, anarchists )

That is why, imho, all this has nothing at all to do with the hapless Druitt, whose untimely demise was USED by Macnaghten to put a public lid on the case. After all, what can be simpler? Man goes loopy, kills women, brain gives way, commits suicide, private info comfirms it, MM's position gives his words weight. "Take it from me, I know". Case closed. Close files, Lets all go home for 100 years. I look good, Police did a good job, Politicians happy, Queen Victoris happy, Government safe, democracy safe, Empire safe. We are all happy.

Utter twaddle. Druitt? A scapegoat. As clear as daylight.

So yes David, I respectfully, can compare one suspect with this "ongoing work" of ours. There is far more weight behind a political/social solution to these murders than a haphazard suicide with no proof to back it up.

With the very BEST wishes for 2010 to you and your loved ones

sincerely

Phil

[DVV]

Hi Phil,

for the sake of discussion, no, comparing your theory with that of an individual is meaningless.

Don't run too fast. Your point is : lone killer of different ones ?

And what if I say: "I have the right to theorize that the Ripper came from the Moon, because neither Druitt, nor Kosminski nor Ostrog can be the Ripper" ?

How many individuals are erroneously suspected ?
All, except, perhaps, one.

So don't underestimate your theory!

Cheers! (fronton 2005, cheap and excellent, bon retour en bouche, tanins légers, robe sombre)
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

The moons a balloon ......to quote Mr Niven.


Cheers!

(Body warming Martell, Cordon Blue, expensive but worth every drop)

Phil

[DVV]

Phil,

why not turning this thread into a drunkard one?

Corey...? How many cubes in one pastis 51 for a narcissist ?

[perrymason]

Frankly Im not too thrilled about having support for some ideas placed on these boards tied to a reference of "the end of days".....David.....but aside from that, what is being proposed, and not ignored by everyone, by people like Phil, Lynn and myself is that there seems to be more than a suggestion that some Ripper Crimes and some socio-political movements were investigated together at that time. Those records would not exist in Met or City records.... 2 policing bodies that have made public their records...because issues that relate to the safety of the nation as a whole....not just a single square mile where prostitutes were being killed....are investigated by bodies that as policy, do not open their records publicly....ever.

So this isnt about copy cats, or random acts of violence,...its about making some sense of the nonsense that is in the proposed suspects set forth by the Senior men, in the suggestive comments made concerning possible Fenian links, and in the face of 5 murders which quite simply do not represent a single killers work.

Best regards all

[corey123]

David,

To your question I wouldnt know, I am no narcissist.

Mike,phil,Lynn

Your theory of Fenian involvement in the murders is really a bit far fetched.

The murders do point to a serial killer, a lone one at that. Or is there no such thing as the serial killler? If you suppose that the C5 are the work of different kilers then I guess you need to suppose the same for every unsolved murder case there is dont you???

Damn, the East End spit out quite a few lust murderers in 1888.


I know close to nothing about Fenian activities but if they are much like any other terrorists they wouldnt murder like the ripper did.
I dont think there would be a set victimology either.


Now seriously guys.
If you want to think logically if it was a early terrorist attack then why such over kill? why not just slit the throat of a couple women then bomb something????

yours truly

[corey123]

Hello Corey. If you hear of 2 gangland slayings, say in Chicago and in a close suburb, and given that both victims had their hands tied and a bullet in the back of the head, does it necessarily imply the same gunman? Or in Northern Ireland in the time of troubles, if 2 chaps were found kneecapped and dead, did it follow there was only 1 attacker? And yet, how about those MO's?

Can any killing be as violent as a political one?

The best.
LC

Damn lynn,

We are talking about more than just a gun shot to the head.

How commen is it that you get a murder with a throat cut and abdominal mutilation????

yours truly

[lynn cates]

John Kelly

Hello Corey. Here's a suggestion for you. Go read John Kelly's (Kate Eddowes' a.k.a. Kate Kelly's) inquest testimony (or what remains of it) and count the anomalies.

How many can YOU spot?

What's that got to do with the Fenians? Stay tuned.

The best.
LC

[corey123]

I have read all the inquest testimoneys.

And to mistakes in the inquest is common, we are human and just because we make a mistake doesnt mean that Fenians are involved.

[lynn cates]

Treachery, O Banquo

Hello Corey.

"How comm[o]n is it that you get a murder with a throat cut and abdominal mutilation?"

You neglected the facial mutilations. Anyway, I'd presume only in cases where you intended to:

1. Scare the fiddle de dee out of OTHER would be traitors.

2. Pass it off as another's work.

Let me stop at that. Sorry to seem cryptic.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hello Corey. Here's a suggestion for you. Go read John Kelly's (Kate Eddowes' a.k.a. Kate Kelly's) inquest testimony (or what remains of it) and count the anomalies.

How many can YOU spot?

What's that got to do with the Fenians? Stay tuned.

The best.
LC

Beware, Lynn,

I'm currently on Irish whiskey.
And please, don't try to corrupt Corey.

Amitiés,
David