Serial Killers, A pattern???

[corey123]

Theory

I still have alot to do as to finish my theory.
And yes joel I am also looking at different mental illnesses.
A overview of what Im doing is trying to either prove he had NPD or disprove. I am confident he had some narcissistic traits but not the full blown disorder. thats what Im trying to prove.

and If a new illness sparks my attention in any of those 300+ pages in that book I ordered from Dr.Canter I will futher investiage.

David,

I would second the deep throat wound, notching the vertebra followed with a deep wound to the abdomen.

which makes me a little weary of stride Ill have to admit.

[corey123]

rearding the disorganisation/organisation theory - this again is tricky ground. narcissistic or not, you would probably do well to research other mental illnesses before going along this path, as for the basis of serial killing on its own it does not hold up to scrutiny too well. npd as the cause of serial murder seems a little far-fetched given these crimes.
l

I am not trying to base the killings on narcissism, I know that would be far featched but i am trying to find clues in his murders to point to narcissism. And the while looking for other possible disorders that may be present.

yours truly

[joelhall]

Hello Joel.

"{I]t goes without saying tha[t] these murders are all connected of course."

Indeed. As all things are. (See Leibniz', "Discourse on Metaphysics"--around chapter 5.) But the question is, "How shall we connect them?"

The best.
LC

dont get me started on metaphysics!

well there are numerous ways of tying these things together as you say... wouldnt it be odd if we were both starting to draw the same conclusions?

Hi Joel,

Hope you won't forget my old mate Piggott.
Best suspect, Jack aside, in Chapman's murder!
I wish I could see one pic.

Amitiés,
David

dont think a 4 foot nothing jockey is really going to be a prime suspect in this one david

im not sure if i would ever be able to name anyone for any of the killngs, although i reckon i could definitely narrow down the search area so to speak - assuming records are still available somewhere

[joelhall]

I am not trying to base the killings on narcissism, I know that would be far featched but i am trying to find clues in his murders to point to narcissism. And the while looking for other possible disorders that may be present.

yours truly

well an obvious sign would be goading/bragging letters to police and press, most likely before the murders rather than after... only problem here is he most likely never wrote any of them.

also theres the fact he would do these things right under peoples noses and get away with it... though this doesnt equal proof unless you know the killer and his attitude towards getting away with it.

proof, i fear, will be rather hard to come by in this instance.

[corey123]

I agree with you there, but Im saying what IF there is signs.

The two v's on Eddowes, maybe its symbolic. Maybe a message, taunting??
cutting the piece of her nose off, a mesage??

i do believe the lusk letter to be real so that can explain for taunting letters.
All though that leads to a more illiterate killer.

[Chadwick]

I am not trying to base the killings on narcissism, I know that would be far featched but i am trying to find clues in his murders to point to narcissism. And the while looking for other possible disorders that may be present.

yours truly

Hi Corey -- I admire your analysis and agree with it a great deal.

It seems to me that JTR had little time to accomplish what he did. It would seem that he had to have some skill, not just in the mutilations, but in subduing -- killing. I would go along with you on the idea that he had started out with animals.

I agree with you that his neuroses had their origins in his mother, who probably was a prostitute.

The use of a knife, the sadistic violence he exhibited, speak to a personalness and inner rage that could not be expressed in normal society. It would also explain why he didn't engage in sex with these women. If he equated them with her, he might have thought it to be incestual.

But another theory which can be explored is the idea of syphilitic madness. He may well have contracted syphilis from a prostitute and, as a result, carried out revenge. It would lend itself to the insane actions and violent, cruel perversions. It would explain why he was unable to continue. The disease took its course and he succumbed to utter madness and death.

I yield to all of you who are far more knowledgeable on the minutia of this subject, and even know who this Ripper is. I've been reading various threads with great interest. I'm new to these pages and hope to learn from you.

[lynn cates]

conclusions

Hello Joel.

"don[']t get me started on metaphysics!"

OK. I hope you are using the technical philosophical definition here and not the popular version. If you were, I'd prefer silence too.

"well there are numerous ways of tying these things together as you say..."

Quite right.

"wouldn[']t it be odd if we were both starting to draw the same conclusions?"

Perhaps, but not necessarily odd. Average intelligent chaps, when presented with the facts, may draw similar conclusions--especially when personal biases are removed.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

criteria

Hello Sam.

"That's half the corps-de-ballet at Covent Garden slaughtered by the Ripper every night they performed, then."

Oh, very well. I'm to stop thinking about hitched up skirts and body placement then? As you wish.

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Chadwick,

Thank you for your comments,
first of all welcom to the forums.
Ripperology is indeed fascinating.
I cannot praise myself and say that I am as great at this as you suppose.
But I do see what you see.
As to WHO the ripper was I have no idea whatso ever but do see how he was inflicted in rage and hatred.
It will be hard to prove the narcissistic theory but I believe it may be done for I already have a workable senerio that fits good with it.
He did have little time, but that really depends on the location.
Bucks row, and open street where passer bys may pass every second.
The back yard of No.29, secluded yet not, hidden by a five foot fence .Anyone could have walked through the back door and discover them at any moment.
Dutfields yard, a yard quite empty, though right next to the socialist gathering of 200+ memebers.
Mitre sqaure,a public square filled with some private housing and business buildings. Regularly patroled by police.
And the most secluded the room of No.13 millers court. where he could and did have all the time in the world.(at least untill McCarthy sent for doss money)And he took advantage of that situation, leaving the place in carnage.


there are many aspects of this case which I need and have overlooked time and time again for this theory.

Ps. Maybe it got even more personal as he got to Kate and kelly?Face shows it.

yours truly

[Chadwick]

Chadwick,

Thank you for your comments,
first of all welcom to the forums.
Ripperology is indeed fascinating.
I cannot praise myself and say that I am as great at this as you suppose.
But I do see what you see.
As to WHO the ripper was I have no idea whatso ever but do see how he was inflicted in rage and hatred.
It will be hard to prove the narcissistic theory but I believe it may be done for I already have a workable senerio that fits good with it.
He did have little time, but that really depends on the location.
Bucks row, and open street where passer bys may pass every second.
The back yard of No.29, secluded yet not, hidden by a five foot fence .Anyone could have walked through the back door and discover them at any moment.
Dutfields yard, a yard quite empty, though right next to the socialist gathering of 200+ memebers.
Mitre sqaure,a public square filled with some private housing and business buildings. Regularly patroled by police.
And the most secluded the room of No.13 millers court. where he could and did have all the time in the world.(at least untill McCarthy sent for doss money)And he took advantage of that situation, leaving the place in carnage.


there are many aspects of this case which I need and have overlooked time and time again for this theory.

Ps. Maybe it got even more personal as he got to Kate and kelly?Face shows it.

yours truly

Corey,

Thank you for your cordial reply and welcome.

Is it true that Catherine Eddowes told the police she knew who the Ripper was when she was at the police station on the night she died? Could that have been why she was killed and was so marred? She confronted him.

Best to you.

[corey123]

Eddowes

It may be.
She ALLEGEDLY said that, we dont know for sure.
All though she was quite drunk on the night of her murder so if she did say that that might be the reason.
I know(from memory) that kelly talked about leaving whitechapel I believe because she was frightened by the scare. But again I believe this is alegedly said.

And I believe the reason Eddowes was killed was simply she was at the wrong place at the wrong time. A very unfortunate way to die.
I believe the killer who had previously killed stride wanted to find another victim so he could feed his desire by mutilating them, and she was easy prey.

yours truly

[joelhall]

Hello Joel.

"don[']t get me started on metaphysics!"

OK. I hope you are using the technical philosophical definition here and not the popular version. If you were, I'd prefer silence too.

"well there are numerous ways of tying these things together as you say..."

Quite right.

"wouldn[']t it be odd if we were both starting to draw the same conclusions?"

Perhaps, but not necessarily odd. Average intelligent chaps, when presented with the facts, may draw similar conclusions--especially when personal biases are removed.

The best.
LC

if the popular version relates to pseudo-science then yes id prefer not to get started on that either, hehe.

anyway it would depend on what your conclusions were.

are you of the opinion that the killers were affiliated with each other, and the murders themselves had nothing to do with sexual killings, royal conspiracies or mental illness or any other common motive which has been discussed previously?

[corey123]

ok now

Maybe you guys should make a thread for this, but not hijack mine.

thanks.

[lynn cates]

this and that

Hello Joel.

"[I]f the popular version relates to pseudo-science then yes [I']d prefer not to get started on that either."

Yes, that's the popular acceptation. A sad sport. I refer to Aristotle's "ontology"--the study of being qua being.

"[A]nyway it would depend on what your conclusions were."

True.

"[A]re you of the opinion that the killers were affiliated with each other[?]"

I think the killer/s of C4 and C5 were either the same or known to one another (or, at least, commissioned by the same entity).

"[A]nd the murders themselves had nothing to do with sexual killings, royal conspiracies or mental illness or any other common motive which has been discussed previously?"

I am arriving at that view. I think that, in the days to come, ripperology will take a drastic new course.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Corey. So sorry. You are quite right. Carry on.

The best.
LC