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Hi Corey????
I thought you subscribed to the notion that the C5 were perpetrated by the same hand.
all the best
Observer
I thought you subscribed to the notion that the C5 were perpetrated by the same hand.
all the best
Observer
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You were saying that the idea of three killers to be not likely right???Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Yes. Which is more or less the same as saying that I subscribe to the notion that one man killed Nichols through to Kelly, i.e. the C5. Why do I get the feeling of deja vu?
all the best
ObserverComment
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And I was saying I couldnt agree more(I ment more but I put less, my mistake) I agree with you. Sorry. But yea I think Jack the Ripper killed Mary through kelly(+ Tabram and maybe more because I dont think jack the ripper stopped killing)
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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If you look at post 86 you'll see that you said you couldn't agree less. I think Lynn Cates and yourself should continue with this thread, I'll bow out and leave you two to it, hehe.
all the best
ObserverComment
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I know
hello Observer,
I ment to put more, I agree with you. I didnt mean to put less.
And dont worry, you can say what you want in this thread. If you have read my piece on narcissism, can you tell me what you think of it???
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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No problems Corey, and yes I'll read your theory, although I do not think I am the ideal person to comment on it. The mind of the Ripper is lost to us now. Of course we can speculate and compare him with others, but only he knew why he carried out those crimes. And I do appreciate that we must stick to the premise of the threads, and not go off at a tangent, but it's not always possible.
ps. Time to retire it's late, take care
all the best
ObserverComment
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Narcissism
In his seminal work, "Aberrations of Sexual Life" (originally: "Psychopathia Sexualis"), quoted in the book "Jack the Ripper" by Donald Rumbelow, Kraft-Ebbing offers this observation:
"The perverse urge in murders for pleasure does not solely aim at causing the victim pain and - most acute injury of all - death, but that the real meaning of the action consists in, to a certain extent, imitating, though perverted into a monstrous and ghastly form, the act of defloration. It is for this reason that an essential component ... is the employment of a sharp cutting weapon; the victim has to be pierced, slit, even chopped up ... The chief wounds are inflicted in the stomach region and, in many cases, the fatal cuts run from the vagina into the abdomen. In boys an artificial vagina is even made ... One can connect a fetishistic element too with this process of hacking ... inasmuch as parts of the body are removed and ... made into a collection."
Yet, the sexuality of the serial, psychopathic, killer is self-directed. His victims are props, extensions, aides, objects, and symbols. He interacts with them ritually and, either before or after the act, transforms his diseased inner dialog into a catechism with internal logic and self-consistency.
In some cases, the murder ritual recreates earlier conflicts with meaningful objects, such as parents, authority figures, or peers. The outcome of the replay is different, though. The killer dominates the situation. He is the one to inflict abuse and trauma on others. He outwits and taunts figures of authority - the police, for instance. It is a form of poetic justice, a balancing of the books, and, therefore, a "good" thing. The murder is cathartic and allows the killer to release hitherto repressed and pathologically transformed aggression - in the form of hate, rage, and envy.
But repeated acts of escalating gore fail to alleviate the killer's overwhelming anxiety and depression. He seeks to vindicate his negative introjects and sadistic superego by being caught and punished. The serial killer tightens the proverbial noose around his neck by interacting with law enforcement agencies and the media and thus providing them with clues as to his identity and whereabouts. When apprehended, most serial assassins experience a great sense of relief.
Serial killers are not the only objectifiers - people who treat other people as objects. To some extent, leaders of all sorts - political, military, or corporate - do the same. In a range of professions - surgeons, medical doctors, judges, law enforcement agents - objectification is an efficient defense mechanism which fends off horror and anxiety.
Yet, serial killers are different. They represent a dual failure - of their own development as full-fledged, productive individuals - and of the culture and society they grow in. In a pathologically narcissistic civilization - social anomies proliferate. Such societies breed malignant objectifiers - people devoid of empathy - also known as "narcissists".Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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PAst nd present
I have found out that Harold Shipman, the mass murderer, was a narcissist, so Was Ted Bundy.
So I am not wrong in saying that it is possible that Jack the Ripper was also a narcissist. So far Im seeing evidence that makes my gut feeling strengthen because I see a clear connection of Narcissism to Jack the Ripper.
yours truly
p.s. Still searching for anyone on here who is narcissistic. Please if you are tell me what you think.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Ocd
I see a bit of OCD in jack.
For one the arrangment of MJKs cloths, neat and bloodstainless, folded on a chair show some neat and orderly behavior, as with the way he arranged his victims, well at least some of them, by placing the intestine over the shoulder. Assuming he did arrange her clothes there.
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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I agree, Corey,
and even more significant is the fact that, in the Chapman and Kelly cases, he put the left hand of the victim over her stomach, apparently after the abdominal mutilations.
Amitiés,
DavidComment
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Its odd
Maybe he was trying to tell us something. Im not saying these were clues but if you look at them as clues, well they sort of make sense.
The triangular cuts below the eyes on kate and the slit eye lids??? Does it mean something?? Maybe leaving a message, perhaps taunting the police??
The intestines over the shoulder,, an odd sort of ritual to perform after mutilating and killing a woman in a empty street where he could be discovered any moment.
Maybe he was OCD and had to do these things, or maybe they were all part of his fantisy of displaying the body(Which is what I think he did it for).
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Not sure if any of you have read this: http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/...Docs/Doc5.html
Anyway, interestin theory about the ocd. Is it only me theat believes this could contribute to "Jack" letting his victimns "bleeding out"? That way, he would have been less likely to come into direct contact with "dirty blood" after the slitting of the throat.
But then OCD alone would not contribute to someone being a murderer. In fact, people with OCD often have fears of hurting others, so would be less likely to be a killer. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule. BUT OCD alone does not provide any motivation for a killer.
It's interesting you mention the evolving of an M.O. If we are to include Tabram as a victim, then this would explain a lot. And the OCD you mentioned could herald an explanation for Kelly. IF he folded the clothes, could he have he have been less frenzied than we realised, and in fact heading for a whole mutilation? he had the privacy to do so.Comment
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Yes
I do think that to be a factor in Stride not being mutilated. If and I say IF Jack was OCD(even the slightest) he wouldnt want to get TOO much blood on him.(with the extent of the mutilatios there would be NO way to get off clean) so he left stride to bleed out, upon waiting he was interupted, yadda yadda yadda. I wont bore you with the rest, Im sure you can figure it out.
And again you are correct, OCD is not enough to motivate a killer, I can assume you have read at least the beginning of this thread, so you are probally well aware of my discoverys towards Jack also being narcissistic. So again I wont bore you with that...
Still even with those two disorderd I am not happy, I am looking through every mental, personality, and physical disorders I know to find one that could be found in a person with the two other disorders.
Although it is entirely possible that Jack only had NPD and OCD, For I have already found a senario to fit with both, and it makes sense.
yours truly
p.s thank you for that article, I havent read it befor.Last edited by corey123; 12-23-2009, 12:32 AM.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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come on
Re-opening....Any new ideas??
To either narcissism or OCD???
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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