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Serial Killers, A pattern???

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  • #46
    Cut

    No i am not saying they are different knives, just that one killer thought to cut through the soft tissues while the other(Jack) tried to saw throught the bone. Showing two different mind sets.

    yours truly
    Washington Irving:

    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

    Stratford-on-Avon

    Comment

    • #47
      I get the point

      Hello Corey. But why NOT 2 different weapons? For just as "Jack" forgot his pointed knife with Liz, why could he not forget his cleaver with Polly and Annie?

      The best.
      LC

      Comment

      • #48
        Lynn,

        I believe you missed my victimology, he tried various methods, which includes trying alternate weapons. I however do not connect any of the torso murders with my six victims.

        yours truly

        p.s I am pretty sure the other four C5 were killed with a surgical knife. Not a meat cleaver.
        Washington Irving:

        "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

        Stratford-on-Avon

        Comment

        • #49
          Im sorry

          Lynn,

          Im not quiet understanding your question, please explain.

          thank you
          Washington Irving:

          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

          Stratford-on-Avon

          Comment

          • #50
            Hello Corey.

            "I however do not connect any of the torso murders with my six victims."

            Right. And I am asking, "Why not?"

            The best.
            LC

            Comment

            • #51
              Archaic's 1888 Letter

              Greetings all,

              Notice what Archaic’s October 13,1888 Letter to Medical News states and how it pertains to Cory123's thread:

              “Sexual perverts of this character never begin by the commission of crimes of such frightful atrocity, but yielding to impulses to do slight injury to their victims, find, as time goes on, that it is necessary to practice greater and greater cruelties, to arouse their desires and gratify passion, until a stage like the present is reached. Such has with probablility been the history of the present murderer [JTR].”

              This certainly sounds like Corey123’s learn-as-you-go killer, and seems to fit today’s theory of aggressive narcissism.

              Sincerely,

              Mike
              The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
              http://www.michaelLhawley.com

              Comment

              • #52
                Originally posted by mklhawley View Post
                Greetings all,

                Notice what Archaic’s October 13,1888 Letter to Medical News states and how it pertains to Cory123's thread:

                “Sexual perverts of this character never begin by the commission of crimes of such frightful atrocity, but yielding to impulses to do slight injury to their victims, find, as time goes on, that it is necessary to practice greater and greater cruelties, to arouse their desires and gratify passion, until a stage like the present is reached. Such has with probablility been the history of the present murderer [JTR].”

                This certainly sounds like Corey123’s learn-as-you-go killer, and seems to fit today’s theory of aggressive narcissism.

                Sincerely,

                Mike
                I think the real problem Mike is that we are asked to analyze this "criminal" by his assumed traits and behaviors as suggested by modern psychologists when in fact it is perfectly clear that residing within the required geography there are women being cut up by another killer at that same period and place....I say "another" because as corey has done, most assume that the Ripper crimes are committed by someone other than the Torso Killer.

                Until you can ascribe with some certainty a victims list that is supported in the evidence,.... not by theory or opinions, these are all the same kinds of attacks and murders.....unsolved crimes.

                All 5 Canonical deaths are still independent acts until otherwise understood.....anything that might link those women together in terms of hard evidence has never been produced.

                Instead of trying to tie the deaths to a "profile", perhaps analysis on an individual basis might be more worthwhile.

                For me anyway, 2 "Ripper" murders I associate with this guy Jack, maybe a third....and none show any evidence that their murders had anything at all to do with their killers "sexual" psychosis.

                Best regards

                Comment

                • #53
                  ...and I've stated this before, casebook.org is the next best thing to scientific peer review, just as you are demonstrating. The response to a hypothesis like Corey123's should not necessarily be, "Oh, I am now convinced and I agree", but "Here is a plausible hypothesis, and now let's work with it". Thanks Michael.

                  Mike
                  The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                  http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Torso and rip

                    Lynn,

                    I have tried to find evidence that supports connection of the JTR crimes with the torso murders.
                    The only thing I could find that COULD possibally connect the two sprees are these:
                    1) That the killer of the C5 tried to decapitate. And in Kellys case her right arm I believe was seperate from her body and the head ALMOST severed.
                    2) They killed woman during round about the same time period.

                    But the things I found more different are these(just to name a few)

                    1) The torso murderer more than likely killed his victims then did his work indoors, later dropping the body parts in various locations.
                    2)Two murders occuring around the same time with TWO distinctively different M.Os doesnt seems likely that one man would swich between M.Os at regular intervals

                    Mike,

                    Yes you are correct, it is a theory, and so far it adds up. At least I dont see anything wrong with it. We will never know for sure but it is highly likely that I could be right.

                    Perrymason,

                    I know your veiws to the ripper murders. You seem to think its not even worth trying new ideas about the murders. If you ignored my victim theory and just read the Narcissistic part it might make sense to you.

                    yours truly
                    Washington Irving:

                    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                    Stratford-on-Avon

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      who goes where

                      Hello Corey. I'm glad you listed similarities and differences. I think we can take any 2 random murders (mix and match C5, torsos, Martha, Frances, Alice) and you will find both.

                      It may turn out that 1 chap killed every last man jack of 'em. Very well. It could also turn out that EACH had a different killer.

                      When I came back to the ripper a while back, I wanted to do a psychological analysis. The problem is, I could not get a handle on who went where. And that is PRECISELY what Mike Richards is trying to figure out. Once that happens, the other job is MUCH easier.

                      The best.
                      LC

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                        Hello Corey. I'm glad you listed similarities and differences. I think we can take any 2 random murders (mix and match C5, torsos, Martha, Frances, Alice) and you will find both.

                        It may turn out that 1 chap killed every last man jack of 'em. Very well. It could also turn out that EACH had a different killer.

                        When I came back to the ripper a while back, I wanted to do a psychological analysis. The problem is, I could not get a handle on who went where. And that is PRECISELY what Mike Richards is trying to figure out. Once that happens, the other job is MUCH easier.

                        The best.
                        LC
                        Obliged mon ami.

                        My best as always

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          lynn

                          I understand what mike is trying to do. I understand 100% and I get that, but I know for a fact, not one person on this earth is going to have a cannon for Jack the Ripper that everyone will believe, it just will not happen. So again I do believe I have found a good cannon(at least for me, for this time). I neither ask you to disbelieve or believe what I believe I just state it. And I also do have a very good feeling on Narcissism with it, it all makes sense to me, no matter what anyone says I truly believe it. The science points to it, the killings, everything in one way or another shows signs of narcissistic behavior.

                          yours truly
                          Washington Irving:

                          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                          Stratford-on-Avon

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            unanimity

                            Hello Corey.

                            "I know for a fact, not one person on this earth is going to have a canon for Jack the Ripper that everyone will believe, it just will not happen."

                            I think I agree. Do you think everyone will agree on a psychological motivation?

                            The best.
                            LC

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Lynn,

                              No I dont. I think that certain people will remain unconvinced in alot and convinced in others. There will never be a definent answer to most of what we seek in this case that everyone will agree on, It will never happen. But it is worth a try to find new ways to veiw things.

                              yours truly.

                              p.s I fond this thread which held these horrifying, and really gruesom reinactments of kellys murder scene in 3-D. Really bizzar.

                              yours truly
                              Washington Irving:

                              "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                              Stratford-on-Avon

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                wound sites

                                Hello Corey. Where's that?

                                I once found a link with all the C5 and their wounds. It also included Tabram. I wish I could find it again.

                                The best.
                                LC

                                Comment

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