Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

[Sam Flynn]

I wish he'd be more precise. Which 'vagina area' is he talking about? East Vagina or West Vagina?

South, definitely. North Vagina is where you'll find the upper sex organs.

[Sam Flynn]

Emma Smith was seen by Margaret Hayes. She was at the intersection of Farrance Street and Burdett Road. This is basically the Limehouse area on the western side of the East India Dock Rd on it.

Oh, Jesus, I can see what's coming - Klosowski was Blunt Instrument Man...

[MrBarnett]

Emma Smith was seen by Margaret Hayes. She was at the intersection of Farrance Street and Burdett Road. This is basically the Limehouse area on the western side of the East India Dock Rd on it. She was seen talking with a man dressed in dark clothes with a white neckerchief round his neck. They were 3.2km/2.7 miles away from Whitechapel. They were soliciting in the Docklands area.

'Basically the Limehouse area'? By that, do you mean Limehouse?

And your point is?

[Batman]

Oh, Jesus, I can see what's coming - Klosowski was Blunt Instrument Man...

Interesting observation. Thanks.

So we have Klosowski out on the night partying (on the road just below where Smith was seen) on the night Tabram dies, 1 hr walk away from where her body was found on a Bank Holiday.

We know Smith goes down to the docks to solicit and it doesn't seem too wrong to say that many of the Whitechapel murder victims go down there on Bank Holidays to make money soliciting.

We know that these unfortunates are walking the 1hr to the dockland and 1hr back from the dockland.

That's pointing at Klosowski and not away from him.

[MrBarnett]

Interesting observation. Thanks.

So we have Klosowski out on the night partying (on the road just below where Smith was seen) on the night Tabram dies, 1 hr walk away from where her body was found on a Bank Holiday.

We know Smith goes down to the docks to solicit and it doesn't seem too wrong to say that many of the Whitechapel murder victims go down there on Bank Holidays to make money soliciting.

We know that these unfortunates are walking the 1hr to the dockland and 1hr back from the dockland.

That's pointing at Klosowski and not away from him.

There were much closer docks. And the women who worked there were very different from the bedraggled women of the Spitalfields doss-houses. Treading on their turf, Margaret Hames/Hayes was lucky to get off with a punch to the face.

[John G]

To much emphasis is put on police officers beliefs and opinions. When it comes down to reality, none seem to be singing from the same songsheet with regards to many aspects of the case. Some made it up, some deliberately lied, and others just went along for the ride !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I don't think it's as simple as that. Walter Dew was an experienced officer, who had a significant involvement in the Emma Smith inquiry and it was his opinion that Smith was a victim of JtR.

Of course, this can't be regarded as completely definitive and there was obviously differences of opinion. Nonetheless, it's not sufficient to simply argue that Whitechapel was dangerous/lots of gangs/violence. Dew was obviously aware of all this bur rejected a simple explanation.

The facts:

Hundreds of people were interrogated, many by Dew himself, and scores of statements taken, but the inquiry got nowhere.

Although Whitechapel was a violent place Dew confirms that the "injuries were unusual."

Dew informs us that the police's initial theory was that she was a victim if one of Whitechapel's blackmail gangs. However, he rejects this argument on the grounds that she was penniless: " It has always been inconceivable to me that such a person could be killed for gain. With robbery as the motive, a very different type of victim would have been chosen."

The place where the attack took place was, according to Dew, "an open and frequented thoroughfare." However, despite the hundreds of people interrogated and scores of statements taken, "not a single clue was discovered." "No appeared to have seen the fatal blow struck, and no one seemed able to give a description of any man with whom the victim might have been seen."

This last point must at least raise a question mark over Smith's account of what happened.

[MrBarnett]

Interesting observation. Thanks.

So we have Klosowski out on the night partying (on the road just below where Smith was seen) on the night Tabram dies, 1 hr walk away from where her body was found on a Bank Holiday.

We know Smith goes down to the docks to solicit and it doesn't seem too wrong to say that many of the Whitechapel murder victims go down there on Bank Holidays to make money soliciting.

We know that these unfortunates are walking the 1hr to the dockland and 1hr back from the dockland.

That's pointing at Klosowski and not away from him.

Actually, Tom Wescott questions whether it is plausible that Smith could have made the journey in an hour. But then he imagined her walking through 'the many winding turns that made up the maze of the east end', whereas the obvious route is along the Commercial Road all the way.

[Batman]

The place where the attack took place was, according to Dew, "an open and frequented thoroughfare." However, despite the hundreds of people interrogated and scores of statements taken, "not a single clue was discovered." "No appeared to have seen the fatal blow struck, and no one seemed able to give a description of any man with whom the victim might have been seen."

This last point must at least raise a question mark over Smith's account of what happened.

Which is more likely to be said by a prostitute in 1888 going to the hospital with her vagina assaulted and bleeding a lot...

1. "I am a prostitute and I was getting someone to pay me money for sex and when I bent over I got a thump and something shoved up me and I have no clue what it was but I am bleeding badly."
2. "A gang tried to rob me and attacked my vagina."

It seems to me she was soliciting and attacked by a client and instead of revealing what she was doing she said she was robbed.

[MrBarnett]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Walter Dew was an experienced officer, who had a significant involvement in the Emma Smith inquiry and it was his opinion that Smith was a victim of JtR.

Of course, this can't be regarded as completely definitive and there was obviously differences of opinion. Nonetheless, it's not sufficient to simply argue that Whitechapel was dangerous/lots of gangs/violence. Dew was obviously aware of all this bur rejected a simple explanation.

The facts:

Hundreds of people were interrogated, many by Dew himself, and scores of statements taken, but the inquiry got nowhere.

Although Whitechapel was a violent place Dew confirms that the "injuries were unusual."

Dew informs us that the police's initial theory was that she was a victim if one of Whitechapel's blackmail gangs. However, he rejects this argument on the grounds that she was penniless: " It has always been inconceivable to me that such a person could be killed for gain. With robbery as the motive, a very different type of victim would have been chosen."

The place where the attack took place was, according to Dew, "an open and frequented thoroughfare." However, despite the hundreds of people interrogated and scores of statements taken, "not a single clue was discovered." "No appeared to have seen the fatal blow struck, and no one seemed able to give a description of any man with whom the victim might have been seen."

This last point must at least raise a question mark over Smith's account of what happened.

How experienced was Dew in 1888? Hadn't he only recently been transferred to H Div?

[Batman]

There were much closer docks. And the women who worked there were very different from the bedraggled women of the Spitalfields doss-houses. Treading on their turf, Margaret Hames/Hayes was lucky to get off with a punch to the face.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Are you claiming the prostitutes who stayed in and around the hot zone do not go to docks on bank holidays? Because Emma Smith herself is staying at Lolesworth Street and she went there and was seen there. Obviously punches to the face don't matter when your hungry and need a place to shelter. They were getting punched up all the time and still hung around, even in Whitechapel.

[Batman]

How experienced was Dew in 1888? Hadn't he only recently been transferred to H Div?

More experienced than you, and that is all he has to be when we use him as a source for someone who was there. You weren't.

[MrBarnett]

Which is more likely to be said by a prostitute in 1888 going to the hospital with her vagina assaulted and bleeding a lot...

1. "I am a prostitute and I was getting someone to pay me money for sex and when I bent over I got a thump and something shoved up me and I have no clue what it was but I am bleeding badly."
2. "A gang tried to rob me and attacked my vagina."

It seems to me she was soliciting and attacked by a client and instead of revealing what she was doing she said she was robbed.

How about 'I am an unfortunate woman and a man I was with attacked my lower portion?'

Pearly Poll stood up in court and told the world she was a prostitute.

[Batman]

Actually, Tom Wescott questions whether it is plausible that Smith could have made the journey in an hour. But then he imagined her walking through 'the many winding turns that made up the maze of the east end', whereas the obvious route is along the Commercial Road all the way.

No one says any prostitute with a client can't walk and have to do it where they meet (and therefore assaulted where they meet).

How can you possibly not even think that they may have walked around? Sadler even did this.

[Batman]

How about 'I am an unfortunate woman and a man I was with attacked my lower portion?'

Pearly Poll stood up in court and told the world she was a prostitute.

Did Smith tell the hospital staff she was a prostitute?

Poll didn't stand up in court and tell the world she was a prostitute. They had to have an officer go over to the witness box to hear her whispers and tell the court what she was saying. That's how reluctant she was.

[John G]

How experienced was Dew in 1888? Hadn't he only recently been transferred to H Div?

I think this is somewhat irrelevant considering that his memoirs were written many years latter. For instance, he's hardly going to describe the area where the attack took place as a busy thoroughfare if his subsequent experience, when he got to know the area better, was that it wasn't actually that busy.

And he was clearly experienced enough to have interrogated a number of people himself.

Tom Westcott also points out that Smith was bleeding, not one blood stain was discovered in the area where she claimed the attack had taken place. (Westcott, 2014) This again raises questions about the accuracy of Smith's account.