Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

[Batman]

But isn't the distribution of wounds revealing in iteslf: thirty eight somewhat random wounds in the upper part of the body; one wound in the lower part that just happens to strike the private parts.

Exactly and no wound went through any clothing, such as her dress rolled up around her waist in this 'frenzy'.

He punctured her more than just in her sexual areas on top because he was trying to get her to die from blood loss. That explains the number of wounds.

He even put a larger knife through her sternum. That's like claiming someone firing off a gun in a frenzy had time to reload and carry on the frenzy.

He thought to puncture her torso in these areas would probably make the wound to her lower private parts less bloody and discovered differently. Hence single stab wound which was obviously directed.

Also what isn't being brought up here is that Tabram as an example of escalation would have been probably just as bloody as Smith in that spot, but not quite as much and less than Nichols.

[MrBarnett]

But isn't the distribution of wounds revealing in iteslf: thirty eight somewhat random wounds in the upper part of the body; one wound in the lower part that just happens to strike the private parts.

But 'lower part' was a euphemism for 'private part' wasn't it? Killeen wasn't drawing an imaginary line across Tabram's body and telling us that only one wound was below that line.

[MrBarnett]

Batman,

You present this as an established fact:

"He thought to puncture her torso in these areas would probably make the wound to her lower private parts less bloody and discovered differently. Hence single stab wound which was obviously directed."

Perhaps you can explain why he had a particular dislike of blood originating from her lower body. Stabs the rest of her body like Billy-o, but gets queasy when the cut to lower part starts bleeding.

[Batman]

Batman,

You present this as an established fact:

"He thought to puncture her torso in these areas would probably make the wound to her lower private parts less bloody and discovered differently. Hence single stab wound which was obviously directed."

Perhaps you can explain why he had a particular dislike of blood originating from her lower body. Stabs the rest of her body like Billy-o, but gets queasy when the cut to lower part starts bleeding.

The dislike is in the fact he can't get in there without getting very bloody which he overcame using the experimentation found in this first post on this thread which has explanatory power... whereas a punter getting into a stabbing frenzy with a client before they had sex doesn't.

It's a sexual homicide. It meets the criteria for a lust murderer.

If a client had stabbed the women through her clothes and not have ripped them off to deliberate expose her, then you might have a case, but even the single targetted wound to her lower sexual parts would indicate sexual homicide.

[MrBarnett]

The dislike is in the fact he can't get in there without getting very bloody which he overcame using the experimentation found in this first post on this thread which has explanatory power... whereas a punter getting into a stabbing frenzy with a client before they had sex doesn't.

It's a sexual homicide. It meets the criteria for a lust murderer.

If a client had stabbed the women through her clothes and not have ripped them off to deliberate expose her, then you might have a case, but even the single targetted wound to her lower sexual parts would indicate sexual homicide.

His previous experiment being Emma Smith, whom he injured internally with a blunt instrument and in doing so almost certainly didn't get very bloody?

This is getting very tedious.

[Observer]

Emma Smith a Ripper victim? I can understand someone like Bait Man, believing this a possibility. But I thought Mr Barnett would have more sense.

[John G]

But 'lower part' was a euphemism for 'private part' wasn't it? Killeen wasn't drawing an imaginary line across Tabram's body and telling us that only one wound was below that line.

Well, he actually says "the lower portion of the body was penetrated in one place, so I don't think it's clear that he was speaking euphemistically. In any event, Tom Westcott, in his book, argues that there was an internal wound to the vagina, which provides a link with the earlier assault on Smith.

[Observer]

Well, he actually says "the lower portion of the body was penetrated in one place, so I don't think it's clear that he was speaking euphemistically. In any event, Tom Westcott, in his book, argues that there was an internal wound to the vagina, which provides a link with the earlier assault on Smith.

I haven't read Tom Wescott's book. Is Tom suggesting that both Smith, and Tabram were JTR victims?

[MrBarnett]

Emma Smith a Ripper victim? I can understand someone like Bait Man, believing this a possibility. But I thought Mr Barnett would have more sense.

Did I give that impression? I didn't mean to. I'm firmly in the she was killed by 'three young men, one no older than 19' camp. There was a time when I thought I could even name them. I'm not so sure nowadays.

[Abby Normal]

Exactly and no wound went through any clothing, such as her dress rolled up around her waist in this 'frenzy'.

He punctured her more than just in her sexual areas on top because he was trying to get her to die from blood loss. That explains the number of wounds.

He even put a larger knife through her sternum. That's like claiming someone firing off a gun in a frenzy had time to reload and carry on the frenzy.

He thought to puncture her torso in these areas would probably make the wound to her lower private parts less bloody and discovered differently. Hence single stab wound which was obviously directed.

Also what isn't being brought up here is that Tabram as an example of escalation would have been probably just as bloody as Smith in that spot, but not quite as much and less than Nichols.

agree
if the victim found on her back with the skirt raised(like the other ripper victims) isn't the clincher this is more than likely a ripper victim-then the stabbing of the body by lifting/removing clothes should be-or at the very least that this probably isn't a pissed off punter stabbing her in an angered frenzy.

[Abby Normal]

Emma Smith a Ripper victim? I can understand someone like Bait Man, believing this a possibility. But I thought Mr Barnett would have more sense.

agree. very likely NOT a ripper victim-no knife used and by a group.
Its possible he was among them-but I seriously doubt it. post mortem types work alone-and the rippers thing was definitely the knife.

[MrBarnett]

Well, he actually says "the lower portion of the body was penetrated in one place, so I don't think it's clear that he was speaking euphemistically. In any event, Tom Westcott, in his book, argues that there was an internal wound to the vagina, which provides a link with the earlier assault on Smith.

Still a euphemism for her genital area, I'd have said. Otherwise he would have been more precise as to where the injury was.

Tom argues much. If the wound had been internal, isn't likely Killeen would have mentioned the fact?

[Observer]

Did I give that impression? I didn't mean to. I'm firmly in the she was killed by 'three young men, one no older than 19' camp. There was a time when I thought I could even name them. I'm not so sure nowadays.

Yes in post 350. To be truthful I haven't been following this thread, as you say it's becoming a tad tedious. Yes ditto, Smith was killed by three young men. Why anyone would believe otherwise is beyond me.

[John G]

I agree that the distribution is revealing, but in the opposite way to what some here evidently think. If the killer wanted a (real, as opposed to metaphorical) sexual target, why not 38 wounds in the lower abdomen and one up top?

Dr Killeen stated that, "there was a deal of blood between the legs, which were separated. Death was due to haemorrhage and loss of blood." It therefore seems that the private parts were an important focal point for the killer.

In respect of the serial killer argument, overkill was also apparent, as it was with the C5 murders (this is a typical serial killer characteristic, applying to 70% of serial murders reviewed by David Canter.)

It also possible that the body was posed. PC Barrett stated, "The clothes were turned up as far as the centre of the body, leaving the lower part of the body exposed; the legs were open, and altogether her position was such as to suggest in my mind recent intimacy had taken place."

I realize that it's been argued that she may have been attacked whilst preparing for intercourse, however, it doesn't seem very likely to me that she'd remain rooted to the spot whilst somebody stabbed her 39 times.

Of course positioning the body is another very common serial killer trait, exhibited in 75% of the cases reviewed by Canter.

[MrBarnett]

Yes in post 350. To be truthful I haven't been following this thread, as you say it's becoming a tad tedious. Yes ditto, Smith was killed by three young men. Why anyone would believe otherwise is beyond me.

If you had been following the thread and noticed the question mark at the end of the sentence, you would have got the right impression.