The **** are the men.

[Elamarna]

The cuts were incidental ? How do you know what was going through the killers mind when he nicked Eddowes eye-lids, and cut her nose off? No one but the killer can answer that question.

In a similar vein. How do you know the writing had nothing to do with the murders?




Don't you think that's a wee bit hypercritical considering the comments you posted above?

Dear Observer

Of course those comments are absolute and unprovable, some would argue they are undefendable.
They were however written in response to the equally absolute comment from post 21, they do sum up my position but are indeed insufficient as they stand.

The second post you quote is much nearer to my normal train of thought.
Of course you point as a great deal of validity to it, which I am happy to acknowledge.

However I would like to place my views on the issues under discussion on record.

1. The cuts, these can be seen from several possible points of view:

a. The facial wounds were nothing more than an escalation of the previous attack on Chapman, (This is leaving Stride aside, and presuming that the same killer or killers were responsible for both Chapman and Eddowes.).

b. The wounds to the eyelids are the same as above, however it has been argued that the cuts to the nose and checks were the result of collateral damage sustained during an aborted attempt to skin the face , as with Kelly, this again assumes the same killer or killers for all 3.

c. It has been argued often that the cuts to the face have a far deeper significance, however almost every person who has argued such a case, says the cuts means something different from what the next person to argue it says, there is no consensus!
Therefore I am unable to find a compelling reason to accept this alternative.

Personally I favour a, but do not rule b out completely.


2. The GSG, there is nothing I have ever read which convinces me that the GSG was written by the same person who dropped the apron. one assume this person was also the killer.
I agree there is circumstantial evidence, but I feel it is no more compelling than the view that the GSG was written before the murders, is anti-Semitic graffiti and not linked to the killings in anyway.

It is a pity that the photo was never taken.

I hope that clears that up

best wishes

steve

[Observer]

No, the cuts were incidental, no meaning other than the killers going further than in previous murders, especially if disturbed on Stride. And it is still debatable if she was a victim of the killer, or if he was disturbed.
The writing had nothing to do with the murders.

Steve

The cuts were incidental ? How do you know what was going through the killers mind when he nicked Eddowes eye-lids, and cut her nose off? No one but the killer can answer that question.

In a similar vein. How do you know the writing had nothing to do with the murders?

Re the cuts

That is your opinion , which you are entitled to, however please refrain from presenting it as a fact, it is not!

Don't you think that's a wee bit hypercritical considering the comments you posted above?

[DJA]

Yes, she could have, but of course several of those men could have decided to leave the club via the side door and come upon Liz and her client (she thought) having a session against the wall. That could have been more a case of coitus interruptus than was planned for!

"Do you come from Sydney?"......Los Trio Ringbarkus

[DJA]

Wouldn't the previous murders have been on the mind of Stride? Could Liz have felt safer next to a club with a number of able bodied men inside?

c.d.

Prolly why IWMC was chosen along with BS man as an escort.

Worthwhile examining the time line of the 5 women's geographical living arrangements prior to their demise.

Lynn Cates seems to also think that Eddowes arrived back from hopping earlier than her defacto testified too.

That would align with Stride leaving Kidney and the idea that Eddowes briefly stayed at Dorset Street.

[Rosella]

Wouldn't the previous murders have been on the mind of Stride? Could Liz have felt safer next to a club with a number of able bodied men inside?

c.d.

Yes, she could have, but of course several of those men could have decided to leave the club via the side door and come upon Liz and her client (she thought) having a session against the wall. That could have been more a case of coitus interruptus than was planned for!

[DJA]

Thanks Ruby Slipper.
Had two attempts at sending you an email.
Second might have worked after being timed out on the first.
No hurry.Might require 5 or more posts before PMs are enabled.
Something I have been after for 8 years.
Paying your Titles Office from Oz is far too complicated.

[Ruby Slipper]

Hi DJA.

I am willing to help in any way I can but it seems I am unable to send you a PM!

[c.d.]

Wouldn't the previous murders have been on the mind of Stride? Could Liz have felt safer next to a club with a number of able bodied men inside?

c.d.

[DJA]

DJA - forgive me, I've not been here in some time, and am still catching up on the many threads I've missed -- have you named your suspect anywhere here? It's hard to come at the idea of a blackmail plot, with no solid argument to back it up. I would assume you're not simply dropping these comments willy-nilly... so have you a link I could follow, please, to any threads explicitly dedicated to your theory/suspect?

I was replying to a specific question.
If you wish to catch up,do what others do and go back through poster's posts.
Information has been supplied through PMs and emails on a need to know basis.
Attempting to get a film written and produced,not to tell the world who Jack the Ripper was.....yet.
Best Wishes.

[Robert St Devil]

Ros and All.

Re: the past few posts and random blitz attacks:

1. Isn't Eliz "conveniently placed" in front of a dark yard?
2. How does The Ripper know that she is a "prostitute" and not a gf/wife of one of the IWEC members?

Re: the thread

I'm given the impression that the police officials lacked forensic imagination because they could have easily draped something over the writing until it was better collected.

[Rosella]

Who knows. However, he may have met some of his potential victims in the main thoroughfares that were better lighted or perhaps spotted them tottering away from local pubs. I do think he had a line of patter that reassured them that he was OK and as they walked along they may have discussed nice, discreet dark lonely places where they would be undisturbed.

One of the exceptions to this may have been Nichols. I do feel that she was probably subjected to a blitz attack because he couldn't wait any longer and maybe she said something that angered him.

You wouldn't have thought that the yard next to the Workingman's Club would have been overly safe for either his or Liz's purposes. However, maybe they'd investigated further down the yard and seen the light of the printing office still on and someone working there and so retreated further up.

Of course we don't know how many of Jack's adventures were prematurely terminated because someone came out or walked past at the wrong time for him, or the women sensed something at the last minute and so his plans had to be aborted.

[Ausgirl]

I will take that further and suggest that the women chose the sites of the dalliance more often than not because they were the experts much more so than the customers. They knew where they hadn't been shooed away. They knew where other woman may have marked their own spots. They knew how to avoid trouble from the police and locals, if not from the Ripper.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I tend to agree. However, what this makes me wonder then is, did JtR wait like a spider near to one or more "preferred" areas, or did he simply happen upon the ideal victim at an ideal but utterly random moment, do you think?

Ie, how would Jack know where these women would take him, in advance (assuming he knew the area well enough to be able to effectively "vanish" from the streets and all view along them, quite quickly)? Perhaps by watching suitable victims at a suitable time of night/morning take customers to a suitable place immediately beforehand?

Or did he just hire many prostitutes and wait for one to take him somewhere that seemed okay in the moment?

[Ausgirl]

Reckon Jack had been involved in sexual practices that would have put him in jail.
The five women,led by Mary Ann Kelly, were killed for attempting to blackmail him.

DJA - forgive me, I've not been here in some time, and am still catching up on the many threads I've missed -- have you named your suspect anywhere here? It's hard to come at the idea of a blackmail plot, with no solid argument to back it up. I would assume you're not simply dropping these comments willy-nilly... so have you a link I could follow, please, to any threads explicitly dedicated to your theory/suspect?

[DJA]

Reckon Jack had been involved in sexual practices that would have put him in jail.
The five women,led by Mary Ann Kelly, were killed for attempting to blackmail him.

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=DJA;378919]

Reckon Eddowes and Jack agreed on IWMC the previous day.

Stride and BS Man were Kate's accomplices in a blackmail pay off.

Eddowes celebrated with a part payment and was locked up.

The fact that she headed straight for Mitre Square on release suggests Jack had a bolt hole there.
My money is on 6 Mitre Street.

Incidentally,Stride was of no interest to Jack,although she was most likely a patient. Hence no mutilation/post mortem.

Anyone in England prepared to do a title search for me?
I can cover expenses via PayPal.
Probably just a matter of 'phoning for a form,filling it in and posting it back with payment.
Kindly PM me if capable of doing that.

Hi DJA
who was paying off who? and for what reason?