The **** are the men.

[Wickerman]

It was the apron he noticed first, and only found the small graffiti because he had his lamp aimed at the wall looking for blood spots.

[Bridewell]

Hi Bridewell
Long probably noticed the apron piece because it was directly under the graffiti and was white and actually quite large.

Quite large yes, and originally white - but filthy. Was it directly under the graffito? I thought that was disputed - don't have my copy of The Ultimate to hand though, so can't check.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Bridewell
Long probably noticed the apron piece because it was directly under the graffiti and was white and actually quite large.

But, as I said above, Long noticed the apron piece before the writing. It was quite big, though, as you say, and mostly white.

"[Coroner] Which did you notice first - the piece of apron or the writing on the wall? - The piece of apron, one corner of which was wet with blood.
[Coroner] How came you to observe the writing on the wall? - I saw it while trying to discover whether there were any marks of blood about. "

[DJA]

It's a big if, but if the GSG was written by Jack, it would tell us that he wrote the graffito in the entrance to the New Model Dwellings on Goulston Street and that, either on the same occasion or later, he also dumped a piece of the Eddowes apron at the same location. Pontification might not be justified, but, were the 'if' found to be a reality, it might be reasonable to conclude that Jack lived in the New Model Dwellings - or very close by.

Perhaps it was a Red Herring.

[Abby Normal]

Why would he throw it away if he wanted to retrieve it? Why not just hang onto it? Or are you suggesting that he was in danger of getting caught with a trophy and therefore dumped it in a hurry? If so, in danger from whom, as neither Long nor Halse mentioned seeing any lone males?

Multiple questions there, so apologies for that. I am not seeking to challenge what you say, just to pursue the line of reasoning to a conclusion. I do wonder (if Jack threw the apron piece because he thought he was in danger) whether Long was the perceived threat - and actually saw him do so. Did he conceal the fact that he had not challenged the individual concerned? Otherwise, why would Long even notice the piece of cloth at all? It was not in a lighted area, so any staining would not be easily visible and he had no way of knowing that a piece of apron was missing. Why did Long pay any attention to, or even notice, a piece of filthy rag in the dark corner of a stairwell? I can't imagine that such items were anything out of the ordinary. (I'm sure Trevor Marriott is right to conclude that people used such things to wipe themselves).

Hi Bridewell
Long probably noticed the apron piece because it was directly under the graffiti and was white and actually quite large.

[Bridewell]

This is pure speculation so I will just throw it out there. If the killer knew of the existence of the GSG beforehand, could he have used it as a landmark in order to retrieve the apron at a later time?

c.d.

Why would he throw it away if he wanted to retrieve it? Why not just hang onto it? Or are you suggesting that he was in danger of getting caught with a trophy and therefore dumped it in a hurry? If so, in danger from whom, as neither Long nor Halse mentioned seeing any lone males?

Multiple questions there, so apologies for that. I am not seeking to challenge what you say, just to pursue the line of reasoning to a conclusion. I do wonder (if Jack threw the apron piece because he thought he was in danger) whether Long was the perceived threat - and actually saw him do so. Did he conceal the fact that he had not challenged the individual concerned? Otherwise, why would Long even notice the piece of cloth at all? It was not in a lighted area, so any staining would not be easily visible and he had no way of knowing that a piece of apron was missing. Why did Long pay any attention to, or even notice, a piece of filthy rag in the dark corner of a stairwell? I can't imagine that such items were anything out of the ordinary. (I'm sure Trevor Marriott is right to conclude that people used such things to wipe themselves).

[Bridewell]

I doubt the GSG was written by Jack and even if it was it tells us nothing. Thus all the pontification about the GSG is a waste of time.

It's a big if, but if the GSG was written by Jack, it would tell us that he wrote the graffito in the entrance to the New Model Dwellings on Goulston Street and that, either on the same occasion or later, he also dumped a piece of the Eddowes apron at the same location. Pontification might not be justified, but, were the 'if' found to be a reality, it might be reasonable to conclude that Jack lived in the New Model Dwellings - or very close by.

[Bridewell]

That is, of course, if Jack wrote it, and if Long is true about not seeing it before.

And if Long made his previous visit at the time that he said he did.

[Joshua Rogan]

Ah, in that case apologies, I misunderstood.

[c.d.]

I was thinking of the apartment building itself as the landmark.

c.d.

[Joshua Rogan]

This is pure speculation so I will just throw it out there. If the killer knew of the existence of the GSG beforehand, could he have used it as a landmark in order to retrieve the apron at a later time?

c.d.

Doesn't seem like much of a landmark, since PC Long noticed the bloody apron piece first and only spotted the writing when searching for other signs of murder.

[Elamarna]

This is pure speculation so I will just throw it out there. If the killer knew of the existence of the GSG beforehand, could he have used it as a landmark in order to retrieve the apron at a later time?

c.d.

Michael suggested the same idea, or at least the same sort of thing, post # 62 I think.

Steve

[c.d.]

This is pure speculation so I will just throw it out there. If the killer knew of the existence of the GSG beforehand, could he have used it as a landmark in order to retrieve the apron at a later time?

c.d.

[Fisherman]

I agree that whether the Ripper wrote the GSG or n ot, there is little we can interpret from it with any certainty.

However, I would want to know if he wrote it for another reason: Was he the sort of killer who actively chose to communicate with the surrounding society or not?

[John Wheat]

Hi John

that maybe the best comment, posted on the thread, if not certainly one of them.


Steve

Thanks Steve

Cheers John