Abberline solved the GSG

[DRoy]

Thought this was a GSG thread ?

It still is Moonbegger. Because of the obvious ties with the 'double event' and the suspects tied to both murders it has to be considered whether the GSG can be tied to them as well.

However, I see your point and will back off.

Cheers
DRoy

[DRoy]

I do believe in a double event, but only because I discount Schwartz.

If Schwartz was right, the idea of a double event must be abandoned.

Damaso,

I'm one of the few that discount Schwartz as well. May I ask why you discount him and how you arrive at your double event conclusion?

Cheers
DRoy

[c.d.]

Hi DRoy,

I don't think the BS man killed Liz but it seems that you are assuming that he took Liz into the yard with the intention of killing her which as you say doesn't make a lot of sense after being seen by Schwartz and the Pipe Man. However, an argument could have escalated once in the yard and he killed her on the spur of the moment.

c.d.

[moonbegger]

Thought this was a GSG thread ?

[DRoy]

Everything is possible, Phil.
Fact is that Stride has been killed in Berner Street, where prostitutes used to do their job.
But the spot turned out to be unfit for further mutilations - because of Schwartz, not Diemshitzshutz, imo.

Cheers

Dave,

Is that fact? What would make Berner's special compared to any other street near by? Are you saying this is where they went to do their business or where they solicited? I only point this out since there wasn't one witness statement about about seeing prostitutes anywhere within Berner's at least within the 30 minutes before Stride was murdered. Plus, why use a yard where there are people coming and going constantly?

Unfit for mutilations because of Schwartz? You know how I feel about Schwartz but regardless...why would BSM take her inside the yard after he was spotted by Schwartz? 'Jack' or not, he'd be stupid to do so. He had no idea what sort of view Schwartz had of him. Why risk killing her just to do so even though he knew he'd been spotted and couldn't mutilate? Sorry Dave, I don't get the logic.

Cheers
DRoy

[c.d.]

Hello Jon,

I think the much more natural reaction is to try and break your fall with your hands outstretched.

c.d.

[DVV]

Thanks Simon !

I was about to quote the inquest, then I realized I was not Trevor Marriott.

Cheers

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

Stride Inquest—2nd October

[Doctor Blackwell]—The left hand, lying on the ground, was partially closed, and contained a small packet of cachous wrapped in tissue paper.

Stride Inquest—3rd October

[Doctor Phillips]—The left arm was extended from elbow, and a packet of cachous was in the hand. Similar ones were in the gutter. I took them from the hand and gave them to Dr. Blackwell.

Stride Inquest—5th October

[Doctor Phillips, recalled]—Some of the cachous were scattered about the yard.

[Doctor Blackwell, recalled]—I may add that I removed the cachous from the left hand of the deceased, which was nearly open. The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view. It was I who spilt them in removing them from the hand.

It's like the final scene of Spartacus.

Regards,

Simon

[Jon Guy]

Hi CD

And then of course, there is always the cachous question. Why didn't they spill out when she was pushed to the ground?.

She needn`t have spilled them when she fell.
She could ahve made fist around them to defend herself and could easlily have used a fist to break her fall.
Many if not most martial arts teach you to roll with a fist.
Not saying Stride was a Kung Fu expert, but it`s what I`d do, and I`m not a Kung Fu expert either.

Also, very relavent point about the attack having already happening, or possibly over, when Schwartz caught BS Man`s attention.

[c.d.]

Sorry, I forgot the most important point. Schwartz's story starts with the BS man stopping and talking to Liz. So if the BS man goes on to kill her then he did not initially see Schwartz or saw him but didn't care that their was now a witness to murder and proceeded to cut Liz's throat right on the spot.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Jon,

This is certainly a possibility but several things come immediately to mind. Schwartz didn't see a knife which of course doesn't mean that the BS man didn't have one only that Schwartz didn't see it. You would think that if the BS man wanted to add a little authority to his Lipski threat that he would have brandished the knife to go along with it. Finally, we have to wonder why he would have allowed Schwartz to get away. The BS man couldn't be certain just how much Schwartz saw. And then of course, there is always the cachous question. Why didn't they spill out when she was pushed to the ground?

c.d.

[Jon Guy]

Hi CD

You make a point that way too often goes overlooked.

As Abby Normal has mentioned, perhaps Schwartz didn`t realise he was witnessing the actual murder. Which is why she was still dead despite Schwartz`s interuption.The not very loud screams could have been because her windpipe was severed.

I think of the Meredith Hunter murder by a Hells Angel caught on camera at a Stones gig. At first glance it looks like just a bit of argy bargy but he was actually being stabbed several times with a knife.

Also, of course, most people who murder like this don`t reason the same way as normal people do. If it was the Ripper, then we`re dealing with a fruitcake of the higjhest order.

[c.d.]

Which then begs the question, why kill her?

Schwartz only saw an assault, no knife. You don't hang for pushing a streetwalker onto her ass.

Absolutely excellent post, Wickerman. Short but sweet. You make a point that way too often goes overlooked. All assaults are equal but some are more equal than others.

c.d.

[Jon Guy]

You sure believe in Marschwartz !
And so do I.

Indeed, mon ami.

Same man or twins

[DVV]

Not such a big IF, if you compare the two descriptions and that it was only an hour between them.

Hi Jon,

You sure believe in Marschwartz !
And so do I.

Cheers