Abberline solved the GSG

[Jon Guy]

Hi Damaso

But I don't believe in Israel Schwartz. I believe that this view is fairly similar to the police view at the time.

I don`t think that was the case.
Do you have a source for this please?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Curious

IF, and that's a big IF, BSM was the same man that had been "romancing" her for awhile, who was told, "Not tonight, another night" . . . . then his being angry is easy to guess at.

Not such a big IF, if you compare the two descriptions and that it was only an hour between them.

[Damaso Marte]

And pretty certain they believed in a double event.

I believe in a double event. But I don't believe in Israel Schwartz. I believe that this view is fairly similar to the police view at the time.

[curious]

the ripper lost his temper when Stride wouldn't go where he wanted her to

I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning behind that idea.

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, even Tabram, are likely to have led "Jack" to the place where they died. All are quite reasonable places for an "assignation" - darkish, off the beaten track, with a wooden support to lean against.

Where is there ANY basis to assume that "Jack" would have wanted to direct them? Enlighten me please.

Phil

Hi, Phil,
To me, it seems the poster is saying Stride would not go off somewhere quiet, somewhere appropriate for her business and her killer's business.

IF, and that's a big IF, BSM was the same man that had been "romancing" her for awhile, who was told, "Not tonight, another night" . . . . then his being angry is easy to guess at.

And, she would not go where he wanted, even if he expected her to lead the way.

curious

[DVV]

I choose to discount Schwartz, much as the police at the time did.

Hi Damaso

I'm far from sure they did discount Schwartz.
And pretty certain they believed in a double event.

Cheers

[Damaso Marte]

The Ripper took away Chapman's uterus. Not ripper-like, if compared to Nichols.
He cut Eddowes' nose : again, not ripper-like.
He killed MJK indoors. Not ripper-like at all.

Kurten killed women and young girls. One day, he had the opportunity to kill a man. He did it.

There are plenty examples as such.

The murders all vary from each other, yes, but to the extent that you see constants, it is that the killer was stealthy and quick. Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes were all subdued first, with minimal violence, then lowered to the ground and cut. In the Eddowes case, there was a night watchman nearby who allegedly heard and saw nothing. I'll grant you that it's possible that Kelly wasn't quietly subdued - at the same time that killing was done in an environment where stealth is less important.

I don't believe that the Ripper would engage in the sort of violence and showmanship that BSM did. This, along with the presence of pipe man, leads me to conclude that either there was a double event or Schwartz was telling the truth, but not both. I choose to discount Schwartz, much as the police at the time did.

[Damaso Marte]

Hi Damaso,

I know you don't believe in a double event, I respect that, but at the same time, I consider that's a gross mistake.

Cheers

I do believe in a double event, but only because I discount Schwartz.

If Schwartz was right, the idea of a double event must be abandoned.

[lynn cates]

Long way to Tipperary.

Hello David. Thanks.

". . . that he killed Eddowes?"

Yup.

". . . I can't think of any better suspect for the Mitre Square murder."

OK. But much distance between these two notions.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn,

no, not necessarily. Schwartz ran away immediately.
Sailor Man also knew he had been seen by Lawende and co.
He killed Eddowes.

Sacré Joseph !

But there is still no definitive connection between the two. It is just as likely that the Duke St. couple were not Eddowes & Co.

[Wickerman]

Good shout, Abby.
I do wonder if Schwartz saw the actual murder taking place.
If it were the case it would answer a lot of questions

And the most important question would be, "was this 'Jack'?" - and the answer would be a resounding "No!"

'Jack' did not perform for an audience.

[Wickerman]

It is not an impossible interpretation of the GSG - though I do not personally believe "Jack" wrote it. Indeed, the interpretation is better than many.

However, it assumes two things:

a) that Stride was killed by "Jack";

b) that BSM/the man Schwartz saw was the killer of Liz Stride.

For that reason, and my belief that the Ripper did not leave the message (or any) I'm afraid I do not accept the hypothesis.

Phil

Agreed.

If 'Jack' wrote the GSG, blaming Jews, then its a fair bet he wrote some letters to the police (the inclination is the same).

As no 'serious' letters appear to blame Jews for the murders then the two 'hypotheses' are not connected.

[Wickerman]

And then Stride would have shouted out ?

Of course, another streetwalker shouting for help, so what else is new, this is the East End.

And what about a possible urge to kill ?

What about it?

[Abby Normal]

the ripper lost his temper when Stride wouldn't go where he wanted her to

I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning behind that idea.

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, even Tabram, are likely to have led "Jack" to the place where they died. All are quite reasonable places for an "assignation" - darkish, off the beaten track, with a wooden support to lean against.

Where is there ANY basis to assume that "Jack" would have wanted to direct them? Enlighten me please.

Phil

Ah what the heck. I never said anything about who was leading who. Simply that he lost his temper when she would not go where he wanted her to-irregardless of who was trying to "direct" who.
Enlightened?

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

sure of what ?
That Sailor Man took notice of the trio, or that he killed Eddowes ?

I'm pretty sure he took notice of the trio, and I can't think of any better suspect for the Mitre Square murder.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

certainty

Hello David. Thanks.

"Sailor Man also knew he had been seen by Lawende and co.
He killed Eddowes."

Are you sure of that?

Cheers.
LC