Originally posted by David Orsam
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Sweet violets
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostOnce again, Pierre, your powers of comprehension let you down, for that is exactly what I am saying.
It's Jeff who is trying to make something of the point about Cox possibly being illiterate, not me.
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostWell, for example, the letter written by the person signing as "GOGMAGOG" in November 1888. A normal letter to a newspaper to encourage people to attend the Lord Mayor's Day procession which you turned into a letter from Jack the Ripper containing a coded message about his next murder.
Something which existed in your imagination only.
Do you want a discussion about this letter? Should we go back to the old thread?
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostWe have "a woman" saying it to the press. That is all there is.
Presumably the "I" is a typo and should be an "A" or a "1".
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostWe have "a woman" saying it to the press. That is all there is.
Two things follow:
1. We know that the press sometimes make mistakes so perhaps they made a mistake on this occasion bearing in mind the similarity of the lyrics of this song to "A Violet From Mother's Grave".
2. But the press don't always get it wrong and maybe a woman did hear Kelly singing "Sweet Violets" during the evening and, bearing in mind Kelly was said to have been singing for about an hour, it's quite possible.
Consequently, why should I even begin to think that "Sweet Violets" in any way involves some form of communication by the killer?
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostOr perhaps I won't.
Just another example of you playing silly games and pretending to have more knowledge about something that you actually possess. So far you have never made good on a single promise to provide hard information to support anything you have ever said on this forum.
I have not made any "promises". Research does not work like that. But I have estimated that there may be some results in October or November. That is just an estimation.
I know this field now and understand how much people have invested in it. I also understand that some people are worried about the case being solved and that others want to see a final solution.
I have three alternatives, David. And I will ask you and the others here what they want. I have decided to let you have a say in the matter.
I can assure you that I am serious.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostI have estimated that there may be some results in October or November. That is just an estimation.
You may be doing some research in September, October or November but until you've done it you can't estimate that you will have some positive results. You can only hope.
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[QUOTE=David Orsam;390147]
Right so what it boils down to is that the press reported that a woman heard Kelly singing "Sweet Violets".
Two things follow:
1. We know that the press sometimes make mistakes
so perhaps they made a mistake on this occasion bearing in mind the similarity of the lyrics of this song to "A Violet From Mother's Grave".
The sources closest in time to the alleged singing of "Sweet Violets" are the press sources from 10 November. The Cox-source is not produced until the 12 November.
2. But the press don't always get it wrong
and maybe a woman did hear Kelly singing "Sweet Violets" during the evening and,
bearing in mind Kelly was said to have been singing for about an hour, it's quite possible.
Consequently, why should I even begin to think that "Sweet Violets" in any way involves some form of communication by the killer?
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Originally posted by David Orsam View PostResearch doesn't work like THAT Pierre.
You may be doing some research in September, October or November but until you've done it you can't estimate that you will have some positive results. You can only hope.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostDid the press make a mistake with this statement? What is the evidence for it?
Secondly, there was evidence presented at the inquest that Kelly was heard singing a different song with very similar lyrics which must surely create the possibility that the press was had identified the wrong song.
So there is a decent argument to be made, based on the evidence presented at the inquest, that the press made a mistake. So far I'm yet to see any form of counter argument from you.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostAnd how do we know that Cox was not the one making the mistake?
As I understand your own position, you are saying that the press report about Kelly singing "Sweet Violets" was wrong and she never sang that song.
That being so, what grounds do we have to doubt that Cox heard Kelly singing "A Violet From Mother's Grave". None so far as I can see. You certainly haven't mentioned any.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostThe sources closest in time to the alleged singing of "Sweet Violets" are the press sources from 10 November. The Cox-source is not produced until the 12 November.
I thought you always set out a hierarchy of sources whereby an official source, evidence given under oath, took priority over a press report. I don't recall you mentioning that an exception to this is if the press report was published before the sworn evidence.
The most likely answer is that the press thought Kelly was singing "Sweet Violets" but made a mistake and this was corrected by Cox at the inquest who gave the correct title of the song she heard Kelly singing.
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostThis is sloppy thinking. "Maybe a woman did hear".
It's not sloppy thinking at all, it's clear and logical analysis.
However, in view of Cox's evidence that she heard Kelly singing a different song with very similar lyrics the likelihood is that the press report was wrong, that Cox was the woman being referred to and the song was "A Violet From Mother's Grave".
That is also clear and logical analysis.
What would not be clear and logical analysis but would be sloppy thinking is if I thought that the killer planted a false story in the press, for no obvious or sensible reason, which said that Kelly was singing "Sweet Violets".
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Originally posted by Pierre View PostIf you were in my position, you would have been forced to ask questions about that.
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