Sweet violets

[GUT]

I agree with this as a description.

Pierre

Except it's not a description.

[Pierre]

The lyrics of Sweet Violets were published in the Pall Mall Gazette 10 November 1888.

This song was not the song described by Cox. It was not described as having been heard at the same point in time as the song heard by Cox.

Did Kelly even sing it?

Who was "a woman", telling the press that this song was sung by Kelly?

Why did the press get the information of this song?

What do the contents of the song mean from the perspective of the song itself?

Regards, Pierre

I agree with this as a description.

Pierre

[Michael W Richards]

Havent had time to read but the first few pages of this, but in 1988 The Globe and Mail of Toronto reported that Kit Watkins was told by Elizabeth Prater about the singing.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Mayerling;390918]

Hi John G.

Thank you for pointing me to that dissertation. I don't recall if I read it when it was first put up.

Hi Pierre,

I see no reason to not keep the connection with Druitt in one's mind. In a case like this any type of connection is worth consideration.

The reason that I made my comment about "Crawford" is that in 1881 there was a notorious incident involving Lord Crawford's family. The then current Earl of Crawford had died, and his body was stolen from the family vault. Eventually it was recovered, but there never was any clear-cut explanation of the theft of the body. There was an arrest, but I believe the man was acquitted or if convicted it was on some minor charge. In the course of the investigation a dog was used to try to track the corpse or the perpetrators - the same dog that had been used in tracking down the child murderer William Fish in Blackburn in 1876.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I have read about that.

Regards, Pierre

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Sweet violets, sweeter than all the roses,
Ladened with fragrance, sparkling with the dew,
Sweet violets, from mossy dell and rivulet
Zillah, darling one, I plucked them, my darling, for you.

Oh, stay! go not away,
Violets are blooming love for you alone.
Oh! sweet violets, sweeter than all the roses,
Zillah, darling one, I plucked them and brought them for you.

Sweet violets, resting in beauty's bower,
Crouched all unnoticed I did pluck that flower,
Sweet violets, looking up to Heaven,
Zillah, darling one, I plucked them and brought them for you.

[Mayerling]

[QUOTE=John G;390902]

Hi Jeff,

This dissertation might help: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-emily.html

Hi John G.

Thank you for pointing me to that dissertation. I don't recall if I read it when it was first put up.

Hi Pierre,

I see no reason to not keep the connection with Druitt in one's mind. In a case like this any type of connection is worth consideration.

The reason that I made my comment about "Crawford" is that in 1881 there was a notorious incident involving Lord Crawford's family. The then current Earl of Crawford had died, and his body was stolen from the family vault. Eventually it was recovered, but there never was any clear-cut explanation of the theft of the body. There was an arrest, but I believe the man was acquitted or if convicted it was on some minor charge. In the course of the investigation a dog was used to try to track the corpse or the perpetrators - the same dog that had been used in tracking down the child murderer William Fish in Blackburn in 1876.

Jeff

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;390912]

But not coming from a reliable source.

One could say the mythical source of monro's lost notes, and they must stay that way unless found must they not?

however an interesting phrase which you obviously used for a reason.

Steve

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;390910]

I was going to say simply:

You are entitled to your opinion.

However the choice of the phrase "hot potato" is interesting is it not?

steve

But not coming from a reliable source.

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;390909]

OK. Well, the idea of Kosminski is just sauce on a hot potato.

I was going to say simply:

You are entitled to your opinion.

However the choice of the phrase "hot potato" is interesting is it not?

steve

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;390907]

Pierre

There are those who do not see a link to Druitt at all, but rather to Kosminski.

Steve

OK. Well, the idea of Kosminski is just sauce on a hot potato.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;390906]

Jeff

I would like to hypothesis for a moment,

Pierre seems to believe there was an unknown witness to the MJK murder scene, who made the call of "oh murder".

He seemed in other threads to suggest that this witness was not on the scene by accident, rather the killer had arranged for her to be there.

I therefore suggests that this person is Pierre's Zillah, and the song is for her.

Pierre has intimated that no song was ever really sung, the information that a song had been sung, is suggested originated from an unknown woman, at the behest of the killer.

However the data to back this up seems to be that Pierre does not accept the sources which say a song/songs were sung, it appears to be a personal interpretation of the sources, dare I say so that they fit the theory, but I digress.


This person, woman, whom Pierre postulates is the same person as the witness above.

I suggest it is her birthday on the 9th, and that she is closely associated to the killer, be that wife, sister, daughter, other relation maybe sister-in law or a girlfriend.

I wonder if Pierre could say if any of that, other than the paragraph in italics, is his view, or have I just completely misinterpreted what he has been posting?

Steve

On the whole, that is correct.

Best wishes, Pierre

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;390903]

As long as one forgets about the ideas about Druitt, yes.

Pierre

There are those who do not see a link to Druitt at all, but rather to Kosminski.

You I assume believe you have identified this person, may one ask how?

Do you have yet another source which provides this detail or are you simply guessing, sorry producing an hypotheses?



steve

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Mayerling;390894]

Hi Pierre,

WHOSE birthday? Mary Jane Kelly's? It's not Queen Victoria's (although, curiously enough, the heir to the throne, Albert Edward, Prince of Wales - later King Edward VII - had his birthday on November 9th). In the course of discussing Lord Mayor's Day parades we forget that other connection to November 9th. Not totally - it has been used connected to the "Royal Family/Mason" conspiracy theory). Somehow though, I don't think that is what you had in mind, for you said it was "HER" birthday.

Of course you will possibly say - no, it was "Zillah's" birthday. So we are forced to ask you "who IN REALITY and specifically by her real name do you think was "Zillah"?"

Balls in your court, unfortunately. For a change, instead of using a tedious amount of philosophical rhetoric, enlighten us with an actual name.

Yours,

Jeff

Jeff

I would like to hypothesis for a moment,

Pierre seems to believe there was an unknown witness to the MJK murder scene, who made the call of "oh murder".

He seemed in other threads to suggest that this witness was not on the scene by accident, rather the killer had arranged for her to be there.

I therefore suggests that this person is Pierre's Zillah, and the song is for her.

Pierre has intimated that no song was ever really sung, the information that a song had been sung, is suggested originated from an unknown woman, at the behest of the killer.

However the data to back this up seems to be that Pierre does not accept the sources which say a song/songs were sung, it appears to be a personal interpretation of the sources, dare I say so that they fit the theory, but I digress.


This person, woman, whom Pierre postulates is the same person as the witness above.

I suggest it is her birthday on the 9th, and that she is closely associated to the killer, be that wife, sister, daughter, other relation maybe sister-in law or a girlfriend.

I wonder if Pierre could say if any of that, other than the paragraph in italics, is his view, or have I just completely misinterpreted what he has been posting?


Steve

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=John G;390902]

Hi Jeff,

This dissertation might help: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-emily.html

As long as one forgets about the ideas about Druitt, yes.

[John G]

[QUOTE=Mayerling;390899]

Odd question, but who exactly is "Crawford" of "2 Cavendish Square" London "W"? Does anyone reading this know exactly who Crawford is? Obviously he is someone who knew Sir Robert Anderson - but who is Crawford exactly? I'm sorry I don't know who it is.

To make it more interesting, there is a strange possibility lurking in my mind about "Crawford". About a mystery concerning someone with that name. That is why I am requesting help in this clarification.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

This dissertation might help: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-emily.html