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  • Sweet violets

    The lyrics of Sweet Violets were published in the Pall Mall Gazette 10 November 1888.

    This song was not the song described by Cox. It was not described as having been heard at the same point in time as the song heard by Cox.

    Did Kelly even sing it?

    Who was "a woman", telling the press that this song was sung by Kelly?

    Why did the press get the information of this song?

    What do the contents of the song mean from the perspective of the song itself?

    Regards, Pierre
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Originally posted by Pierre View Post
    The lyrics of Sweet Violets were published in the Pall Mall Gazette 10 November 1888.

    This song was not the song described by Cox. It was not described as having been heard at the same point in time as the song heard by Cox.

    Did Kelly even sing it?

    Who was "a woman", telling the press that this song was sung by Kelly?

    Why did the press get the information of this song?

    What do the contents of the song mean from the perspective of the song itself?
    You of anyone should know that the press sometimes make mistakes Pierre.

    The song described by Mrs Cox was "A Violet from Mother's Grave". This song contains a line about a "small violet" as opposed to a "sweet violet".

    Can I suggest that the explanation is that the Pall Mall Gazette was confused and identified the wrong song as having been sung by MJK and therefore published the lyrics to the wrong song?

    Comment


    • #3
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0yyBAB8usQI

      Comment


      • #4
        A Violet from Mother's Grave
        Copyright, 1881, by J. W. Pepper.

        Scenes of my childhood arise before my gaze,
        Bringing recollections of bygone happy days,
        When down in the meadow in childhood I would roam;
        No one's left to cheer me now within that good old home.
        Father and mother they have passed away.
        Sister and brother now lay beneath the clay;
        But while life does remain, to cheer me I'll retain
        This small violet I plucked from mother's grave

        Chorus
        Only a violet I plucked when but a boy,
        And oft' times when I'm sad at heart, this flow'r has given me joy,
        But while life does remain, in memoriam I'll retain
        This small violet I plucked from mother's grave.

        Well I remember my dear old mother's smile,
        As she used to greet me when I returned from toil;
        Always knitting in the old arm chair,
        Father used to sit and read for all us children there.
        But now all is silent around the good old home,
        They all have left me in sorrow here to roam;
        White life does remain, in memoriam I'll retain
        This small violet I plucked from mother's grave.-Chorus.

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting. I wonder what a violet meant in "the language of flowers"?
          Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
          ---------------
          Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
          ---------------

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          • #6
            To be honest I'm a little puzzled by this thread, but then Pierre stared it so I guess that's to be expected. Mary chose to sing the song, I'm sure the killer didn't force her to, so what's the point.
            G U T

            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
              Very interesting. I wonder what a violet meant in "the language of flowers"?
              Violet I believe means spiritual or royalty.
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #8
                Or there is this re colour of violets

                The meaning of the violet changes depending on the color of the flower and the person the flower is sent to. Blue violet flowers symbolizes love and faithfulness, white violets represent purity and chastity, and yellow violets symbolize high worth and goodness.
                G U T

                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                Comment


                • #9
                  For a more detailed overview


                  http://www.gardenguides.com/82340-me...t-flowers.html
                  G U T

                  There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for the info and the garden link, Gut. Apparently violets do have varying meanings, including purity, love, death, and resurrection.
                    Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                    ---------------
                    Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                    ---------------

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It was published by James Pepper and his middle name was "Welsh", so there's a beginning of a conspiracy.
                      dustymiller
                      aka drstrange

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GUT View Post
                        To be honest I'm a little puzzled by this thread, but then Pierre stared it so I guess that's to be expected. Mary chose to sing the song, I'm sure the killer didn't force her to, so what's the point.
                        I'm not too sure why it's in the "Letters and Communications" section either. Perhaps all will be revealed in due course.
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...s_Alderton.jpg

                          AKA Dr Pepper

                          I'm just thicke!
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=Pierre;389885]

                            The lyrics of Sweet Violets were published in the Pall Mall Gazette 10 November 1888.

                            This song was not the song described by Cox. It was not described as having been heard at the same point in time as the song heard by Cox.
                            We should rule out Cox. This is not the song heard by Cox.

                            Did Kelly even sing it?

                            There is no evidence for Kelly having sung the song. The song is not mentioned in the police investigation from the 9th November and it is not mentioned in the inquest source.


                            Who was "a woman", telling the press that this song was sung by Kelly?
                            The name of the "woman" is not mentioned in the papers. There is no description of that woman. It could have been any woman.
                            Why did the press get the information of this song?
                            Because, according to the papers, "a woman" told them. But no newspaper gives an account of the motive for "a woman" for doing so.

                            The information given by that person is picked up by the newspapers but without any analysis of the circumstances connected to the information.

                            What do the contents of the song mean from the perspective of the song itself?
                            The contents can be defined as follows:

                            1. Flowers have been plucked.
                            2. Flowers have been plucked for a woman.
                            3. They are given to her.
                            4. The woman is asked to stay and to not go away.
                            5. The one who plucked the flower in beauty´s bower was crouched and all unnoticed.
                            6. The flowers were plucked and they now look up to heaven.


                            Regards, Pierre
                            Last edited by Pierre; 08-09-2016, 01:25 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pierre View Post

                              There is no evidence for Kelly having sung the song.
                              Forgive me for asking, but if there is no evidence of Kelly having sung the song, what's the point of listing in point format the contents of that song?

                              Are you saying that an unknown woman deliberately provided false information about the song for some reason to the PMG?

                              Isn't the obvious answer that someone (whether the PMG or its informant) simply made a mistake and misidentified the song "A Violet from Mother's Grave" as "Sweet Violets"?

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