What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[lynn cates]

problems

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"Does it matter whose name was on the pawn-ticket?"

Umm, if it were really his boots, yes.

But there are FAR worse problems.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Lynn,

I must be particularly thick today, but can't see what you are getting at. I know Kelly is quoted as saying that Kate was locked up in the afternoon and I have seen him quoted as saying seven-thirty, that is before the time she was actually locked up, but apart from that, nothing. Does it matter whose name was on the pawn-ticket?

Confused,
Gwyneth

Hello Trevor,

I think she would have had more takers in London than in Maidstone! Know it well, grew up there. Kate was by all accounts a "jolly" and lively woman - I think she would have been more in demand than say Polly (despite bonnet) or Annie Chapman. Still, no accounting for taste.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

I don't know about that I have seen her photo you can clearly see the marks left behind where the barge poles have been !

[Observer]

Hi Gwyneth,

You certainly are a romantic.

Evening News 10th October 1888—

"Kelly is an interesting character from the fact that he is in some degree above the class which surrounds him. He is quiet and inoffensive in manner, and has fine features, with sharp and intelligent eyes . . . Kelly is not a strong man, as he suffers from an affection of the kidneys and a bad cough. These ailments have prevented him from doing much hard work, and he has earned his living by doing odd jobs about Spitalfields Market and running errands for the Jews . . ."

Interesting that his "affection of the kidneys and a bad cough" did not prevent him walking the thirty five miles from Maidstone to London in a single day.

Regards,

Simon

Don't leave it there Simon. Are you of the opinion that Kelly was lying about his medical condition? Or that he was incapable of walking from Maidstone to London in a single day due to his medical condition?

[curious4]

Kate's picture

I don't know about that I have seen her photo you can clearly see the marks left behind where the barge poles have been !

Now, now, Trevor, no-one can be expected to look their best with a cut throat, sewn up the middle and hung up by the hair from a hook - not even in fishnet stockings - if she'd had any.

Cheers,
Gwyneth

[curious4]

Cool head

You`re not wrong, C4.
Don`t let them distract you ...

Thank you Jon - trying my best to keep a cool head.

Best wishes,
C4

[Simon Wood]

Hi Gwyneth,

Yes, it does matter whose name was on the pawn ticket.

Why would the wholly innocent, hapless, hop-picking, arrested-for-drinking girl from Wolverhampton have had reason to pawn John Kelly's boots using a fictitious name and address?

It's not like she had a stellar reputation to maintain.

Hi Observer,

Given the alleged circumstances of Kelly and Eddowes' peregrinations, the answer isn't exactly Von Braun material.

Regards,

Simon

[curious4]

False name

Hi Gwyneth,

Yes, it does matter whose name was on the pawn ticket.

Why would the wholly innocent, hapless, hop-picking, arrested-for-drinking girl from Wolverhampton have had reason to pawn John Kelly's boots using a fictitious name and address?

It's not like she had a stellar reputation to maintain.

Hi Observer,

Given the alleged circumstances of Kelly and Eddowes' peregrinations, the answer isn't exactly Von Braun material.

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon,

Perhaps for the same reason she gave a false name and address at the police station? Just guessing. The pawn ticket for the shirt didn't have her name on it - presumably if you had the ticket and the money there would be no problem in taking out whatever was pawned.

Best wishes,

Gwyneth

[curious4]

Long walks

Hello again Simon,

There as an affection of the kidneys related to circulatory problems which is associated with a bad cough. Hop-picking was thought to be a health-giving occupation and ailing family members would often be taken along. And walking 35 miles was a doddle for a victorian - they habitually walked very long distances - see the Pickwick Papers.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[Simon Wood]

Hi Gwyneth,

As you appear to have a handy explanation for every discrepancy in John Kelly's story, you might like to address the facts behind his story about Eddowes' stay at the Mile End Casual Ward.

Regards,

Simon

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo C4 I'm a romantic as well.

Hello again Watson,

I think you are being a little hard on Kelly. They seem to have been fond of each other. Kelly by all accounts stood barefoot in the street outside while Kate pawned his new boots, not Kate's new jacket (both bought with the little money they had earned hop-picking). The landlord of the lodging house recalls them both being in by nine(ish) whenever they stayed there and is quite clear that as far as he knew Kate never went with any man apart from Kelly.

Kate was said to have earned her living during the winter by hawking and cleaning and in the summer by fruit-picking and hopping. I grew up in Kent, and to this day it is possible to earn a good wage by fruit-picking (not sure about hopping, though).

I think there is a good case to be made for Kate being the only victim who didn't prostitute herself.

All good wishes,
C4

I think I was just trying to illustrate the point that Kidney gets run over by the bus where as Kelly gets viewed as a good fella. Most of what we have to go on about these women comes from their partners. So a level of objectivity should be maintained. I was also unaware of his potential ill health. So Eddowes having to, at least occasionally, prostitute herself when things got really rough seems at least a little more likely in my book. No one is prob gonna admit to their lady turning tricks. Just don't see it as probable. Especially not publicly.

[curious4]

In an emergency?

I think I was just trying to illustrate the point that Kidney gets run over by the bus where as Kelly gets viewed as a good fella. Most of what we have to go on about these women comes from their partners. So a level of objectivity should be maintained. I was also unaware of his potential ill health. So Eddowes having to, at least occasionally, prostitute herself when things got really rough seems at least a little more likely in my book. No one is prob gonna admit to their lady turning tricks. Just don't see it as probable. Especially not publicly.

Hallo Watson,

Yes, I think that is a distinct possibility, not saying Kate was whiter than white. In fact the newspaper article Simon quotes goes on to say that Kelly stated that he tried to prevent any immoral goings on by taking Kate to the Casual Ward whenever he was without the eight pence, so the temptation must have been there. Nevertheless I do think they did their utmost to avoid it and may have succeeded.

I don't think Kidney was as bad as he is painted either, just for the record. Unfortunately when you have taken a little dutch courage, it can impede your efforts to express yourself!

All good wishes,
C4

[RivkahChaya]

35 miles is more than a 12 hour walk, as the crow flies, if you walk 3 miles an hour, and you'll need food, and to stop for water, unless you are carrying a lot of it with you from the start.

Even if the walking itself wasn't a problem for people who were used to walking, that's a chunk of time.

[Bridewell]

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

Pinched your bottom whilst playing Wagner? Ride of the Valkyries, perhaps? (heh-heh)

Seriously, it seems that Kate was quite eager to get out AND on time.

Cheers.
LC

And a police cell is, generally speaking, a safe place to be in the interim.

[Bridewell]

I think I need to revise my choices...because I would just love to know who Mrs Long really saw.

Cheers all

Me too.

[C. F. Leon]

I think I need to revise my choices...because I would just love to know who Mrs Long really saw.

Cheers all

A desperate Doctor (Who?) between Companions? Then the follow-on becomes Which Regeneration was it? (I'm guessing the 9th Dr- never did trust THAT one!)