What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[Barnaby]

People who have been alcoholics for a long time can appear sober when they still have a measurable BAC. What's more, someone who is a genuine alcohol addict can get very ill if forced to go through sudden withdrawal. That's what the DTs are. People can die during a seizure when they have the DTs.

If Eddowes was a genuine addict, having access to alcohol was more important to her than having a bed for the night. The shakes and the vomiting when a person starts going into withdrawal are really awful. I've never experienced them, but I've seen them.

I don't know that she was an alcoholic, but I've seen her described that way. I'm not really sure what the definition of alcoholic is anymore, though. It used to be reserved for addicts who would go into physical withdrawal, but lately, it seems to be applied to anyone who tends to act like an ******* when he drinks, or anyone who drinks to escape real (as opposed to imagined, or blown out of proportion) problems in his or her life, whether or not the person is actually addicted. Anyway, it sounds like Eddowes got drunk pretty frequently, but I've never heard about her having the DTs.

One can be an alcoholic without being physically dependent on the drug. The DSM-IV lists criteria for both substance dependence disorder and substance abuse disorder. Substance abuse disorder has nothing to do with physical dependence but rather focuses on the negative consequences of drinking (e.g., in hazardous places, legal implications, etc.). Substance dependence disorder may - but not necessarily - involve physical dependence. To complicate (or simplify depending on your POV) matters, the new DSM-V lists simply an alcohol abuse disorder with subcategories of mild, moderate, and severe. I'm assuming that severe is the category in which DT's would be experienced upon cessation of use.

You are quite correct in that alcohol withdrawal can kill. But assuming Eddowes was quite blitzed when arrested, even if she was dependent she wasn't incarcerated long enough to experience severe symptoms associated with alcohol withdrawal

[lynn cates]

street walkers

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I had to research the press archives and found specific charges for those found sleeping on the streets."

I can readily believe that. That prompts me to think that those who claimed to walk the streets really did so.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

no luck

Hello Gwyneth.

Of course, John claimed they had no luck picking hops. And most of London was sent home near the beginning of September, the Kent people being sufficient for the picking.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Hop-picking

Hello Lynn,

Yes, it was a particularly bad year for hops (at least in Kent) that year, but what I meant was that in a good or normal year they could make enough to live fairly well, especially if Kate was hawking and cleaning during the winter months. I wonder if she really was hoping for the reward. (Out on very thin ice there, I know.) Perhaps that was the reason she didn't try straight away to get some cleaning work. Mind you, if her children thought of her as a scrounger, perhaps she didn't always do so well.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

boots

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"what I meant was that in a good or normal year they could make enough to live fairly well"

I agree. But I find it doubtful that Kelly was able to afford new boots from the hops pay.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Boots

Hello Lynn,

Paul Begg again: "They stopped off in Maidstone. Kelly bought a pair of boots from Arthur Pash in the bustling High Street and Eddowes bought a jacket from a nearby shop." Daily Telegraph 4th October, 1888. "We did not have money enough to keep us until we got to town, but we did get there and came straight to this house. Luck was dead against us .... we were both done up for cash.." The Star, 4th October 1888.

I don't see where else they would have got the money. If Kate was earning money by prostitution, why not get money the "easy" way when they returned to London and keep the boots?

They may not have earned much hopping, but seem to have decided to use what they did earn on essentials. Kelly's boots may have been falling to pieces and Kate in dire need of a warm jacket for the winter.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

reserve

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

I don't doubt the accuracy of the interview. Do have some reserve about John's story.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Nope

Hello Lynn,

Nope, don't agree. The story was easy enough for the newspapers to check, the boots existed and were pawned. The fact that Kelly dithered a bit about exactly when they were pawned I think is understandable, he must have been in shock and grieving for his partner of seven years who had died in horrific circumstances. I still have him down as a "goody". But then I'm a romantic

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

testimony

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

They did check. In whose name were the boots pawned, John Kelly or Kate Eddowes/Conway?

Try reading both "The Echo" interview with John and also "The Star." Now read his inquest testimony.

Any problems?

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Lynn,

Paul Begg again: "They stopped off in Maidstone. Kelly bought a pair of boots from Arthur Pash in the bustling High Street and Eddowes bought a jacket from a nearby shop." Daily Telegraph 4th October, 1888. "We did not have money enough to keep us until we got to town, but we did get there and came straight to this house. Luck was dead against us .... we were both done up for cash.." The Star, 4th October 1888.

I don't see where else they would have got the money. If Kate was earning money by prostitution, why not get money the "easy" way when they returned to London and keep the boots?

They may not have earned much hopping, but seem to have decided to use what they did earn on essentials. Kelly's boots may have been falling to pieces and Kate in dire need of a warm jacket for the winter.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

Prostitution is a buy and sell occupation they are times when you want to sell but no buyers. Especially with the amount of sellers there were to be found. Then a buyer is spoilt for choice.

[curious4]

Eddowes and Kelly

Hello Lynn,

I must be particularly thick today, but can't see what you are getting at. I know Kelly is quoted as saying that Kate was locked up in the afternoon and I have seen him quoted as saying seven-thirty, that is before the time she was actually locked up, but apart from that, nothing. Does it matter whose name was on the pawn-ticket?

Confused,
Gwyneth

Hello Trevor,

I think she would have had more takers in London than in Maidstone! Know it well, grew up there. Kate was by all accounts a "jolly" and lively woman - I think she would have been more in demand than say Polly (despite bonnet) or Annie Chapman. Still, no accounting for taste.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[Simon Wood]

Hi Gwyneth,

You certainly are a romantic.

Evening News 10th October 1888—

"Kelly is an interesting character from the fact that he is in some degree above the class which surrounds him. He is quiet and inoffensive in manner, and has fine features, with sharp and intelligent eyes . . . Kelly is not a strong man, as he suffers from an affection of the kidneys and a bad cough. These ailments have prevented him from doing much hard work, and he has earned his living by doing odd jobs about Spitalfields Market and running errands for the Jews . . ."

Interesting that his "affection of the kidneys and a bad cough" did not prevent him walking the thirty five miles from Maidstone to London in a single day.

Regards,

Simon

[curious4]

Hmmmm

Hello Simon,

Hmmmm. I need a quiet hour or so to reread what I can find on Kelly and on my laptop - going cross-eyed trying to read everything on my phone! I shall have to spend some time reassessing Kelly - not saying I'm wrong quite yet though!

All good wishes,
Gwyneth

[Jon Guy]

You`re not wrong, C4.
Don`t let them distract you ...

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

What's all this?

Don't let whom distract Gwyneth?

Regards,

Simon