How to make Ripperology better?

[MrBarnett]

People’s lack of knowledge of Maybrick is quite astounding.

Maybrick attacked his wife on numerous occasions. Not once, numerous. He was violent to his own wife.

A man violent against women who was a drug addict and was in London in September 1888. Confirmed alongside suffering with eye issues, by a letter from Gustav Witt to the Home Office. He had a business address at 46 Lime Street in 1866 - two minutes from Mitre Square.

He has more credentials as a candidate without the scrapbook or watch than most suspects mentioned on here.

These are circumstantial facts but they are facts none the less.

Did Witt live in the East End? I thought he lived south of the river somewhere.

Maybrick was violent against women - plural? Did he stab his wife (wives?) or beat her (them) with a poker in front of other people?

Nothing I said displayed a lack of knowledge of Maybrick, but I don’t claim to be an expert on his activities. I just feel that in terms of his demonstrable presence in the East End in the 1880s, his record of extreme violence against women, his involment in the East End sex trade and his personal knowledge of MJK, Morgenstern is way above Maybrick.

Maybrick struck his wife. He may have been somewhere near the East End in June, 1888 (I think). Is there more than that (diary aside)?

[Wickerman]

People’s lack of knowledge of Maybrick is quite astounding.

Maybrick attacked his wife on numerous occasions. Not once, numerous. He was violent to his own wife.

A man violent against women who was a drug addict and was in London in September 1888. Confirmed alongside suffering with eye issues, by a letter from Gustav Witt to the Home Office. He had a business address at 46 Lime Street in 1866 - two minutes from Mitre Square.

He has more credentials as a candidate without the scrapbook or watch than most suspects mentioned on here.

These are circumstantial facts but they are facts none the less.

If you research the period violence against women was commonplace, every second male in the country would be a potential suspect if that is your concern.
The Diary has been beaten, squeezed, thrashed, shreaded, diced, spliced & discredited so many times since Casebook opened it's really staggering that anyone should show legitimate interest in it anymore.
The only debatable matter seems to be how it was done, not whether it is genuine - that ship has already sailed.

[Abby Normal]

If you research the period violence against women was commonplace, every second male in the country would be a potential suspect if that is your concern.
The Diary has been beaten, squeezed, thrashed, shreaded, diced, spliced & discredited so many times since Casebook opened it's really staggering that anyone should show legitimate interest in it anymore.
The only debatable matter seems to be how it was done, not whether it is genuine - that ship has already sailed.

thats not even debateable. the only real question is why people continue to defend it as if there is still any mystery at all too it.
but i think I know the reason for that too.

the best thing for ripperology would be to denounce it, and those that still defend it (or even still bring it up), forget about it and move on.

[erobitha]

Did Witt live in the East End? I thought he lived south of the river somewhere.

Maybrick was violent against women - plural? Did he stab his wife (wives?) or beat her (them) with a poker in front of other people?

Nothing I said displayed a lack of knowledge of Maybrick, but I don’t claim to be an expert on his activities. I just feel that in terms of his demonstrable presence in the East End in the 1880s, his record of extreme violence against women, his involment in the East End sex trade and his personal knowledge of MJK, Morgenstern is way above Maybrick.

Maybrick struck his wife. He may have been somewhere near the East End in June, 1888 (I think). Is there more than that (diary aside)?

Witt lived in Camberwell, 5 miles from Whitechapel. The letter I refer to indicates Maybrick was there in September 1888 complaining of eye issues.

Your point of Mortgenstern is a valid one, I was not commenting on him specifically. I am commenting on the plethora of other 'candidates' who seem to get much higher billing than Maybrick based on nothing more than being the first to one scene for example. Or a mentally ill jew. Or slightly odd local mortuary attendant. These candidates have no evidence of violence against women.

Kosminski once attacked his sister with scissors and people accuse him of being violent towards women. Yet, when Maybrick attacks his wife (multiple times) that is dismissed as "well things were different back then, a bit of domestic violence was accepted."

[erobitha]

thats not even debateable. the only real question is why people continue to defend it as if there is still any mystery at all too it.
but i think I know the reason for that too.

the best thing for ripperology would be to denounce it, and those that still defend it (or even still bring it up), forget about it and move on.

It can't be debated can it, because there is so much resistance to the idea that actually beyond the superficial there could be something that could lead us to the ultimate answer in all of this.

Denounce me Abby all you want. But do so with absolute proof or debate it like a grown up.

[Aethelwulf]

I just feel that in terms of his demonstrable presence in the East End in the 1880s, his record of extreme violence against women, his involment in the East End sex trade and his personal knowledge of MJK, Morgenstern is way above Maybrick.

MrB is there some more detail on this Morgenstern chap somewhere?

[erobitha]

If you research the period violence against women was commonplace, every second male in the country would be a potential suspect if that is your concern.
The Diary has been beaten, squeezed, thrashed, shreaded, diced, spliced & discredited so many times since Casebook opened it's really staggering that anyone should show legitimate interest in it anymore.
The only debatable matter seems to be how it was done, not whether it is genuine - that ship has already sailed.

Discredited by who?

I do not see it being game, set and match by a long chalk.

Thanks god there are still researchers out there willing to find out the truth about this thing and how it came to be because what has been presented as absolute fact by either side has fallen short.

To me, the truth is all that matters. We are still not there yet, despite what you or others think.

Once we have it, maybe then I can be 'denounced' and burnt at the stake as a heretic by ripperologists.

[erobitha]

Prove it. Name these 'numerous occasions.'

29th March 1889
- Left eye damage caused by punch

5th April 1889
- Pulled around the room by her hair

[Scott Nelson]

I think everyone you mention is a valid suspect-also flemming, kosminsky and chapman all had a history of violence against women. and were there at the time.

I can't remember if Fleming had a history of violence against women, but he did go to an asylum where he remained until his death. His prior association with Mary Kelly makes him almost as good a candidate as Morgenstern for her killer.

[rjpalmer]

29th March 1889
- Left eye damage caused by punch

5th April 1889
- Pulled around the room by her hair

Isn't this, in fact, the same incident?

Christie, Colquhoun, Harrison, Feldman, etc. only describe one fight, and, infamously, even the diarist refers to his violence as a "one off instance."

At trial, it was stated that James and Florrie had been married for eight years and had not quarreled or fought before the incident with Brierley.

The way it is usually described, the quarrel over the Grand National occurred on 29 March, at which time Maybrick did indeed blacken his wife's eye.

She then took to her bed for a week.

On 6th April, she met Brierley again and told him of being beaten and dragged around the room--but this wasn't the day before--she was referring to the same incident on 29 March.

But perhaps you have a source that shows otherwise?

[MrBarnett]

MrB is there some more detail on this Morgenstern chap somewhere?

It’s spread across numerous threads on JTRF.

Here are a couple:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/other-crimes-criminals-murderers-murders/29974-assault-by-john-morgenstern

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-kelly/27698-the-morgenstern-brothers-felix-family-79-pennington-street

[MrBarnett]

Another interesting fellow, is this man, Stephen Maywood. The evidence suggests he and Morgenstern were in cahoots.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-witnesses-evidence/27791-stephen-maywood

Maywood was also violent, a brothel-keeper, a fraudster and it would seem a serial arsonist.

This is a list of fires that occurred at his and his family’s various properties. The greatest mystery about this man is how he went from running a brothel in Breezer’s Hill to buying (and torching) a string of houses, cottages, farms etc. Where did the money come from?

January, 1890:
1, Rich Street, Limehouse.

August, 1890;
1, Rich Street, Limehouse.

September, 1892:
Five-roomed house, Barkingside, Essex.

Oct(?) 1892:
Two cottages on the Bunting Bridge-road estate in Barkingside.

November, 1893:
Two cottages on the Bunting Bridge-road estate in Barkingside.

September, 1906:
Town Hall Farm, Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex

October, 1907:
Little Bromfords Farm, Nevendon, Essex.

October, 1909:
Malting Farm, Great Leighs, Essex

September, 1913:
Park Farm, Great Canfield, Essex.

October, 1914:
Park Farm, Great Canfield, Essex
(12 hay stacks).

[Scott Nelson]

How about another brothel keeper, Gertrude Smith, next to whose premise at 254 Whitechapel Road, a bloodied knife was found on the sidewalk the day after the double event?

[MrBarnett]

How about another brothel keeper, Gertrude Smith, next to whose premise at 254 Whitechapel Road, a bloodied knife was found on the sidewalk the day after the double event?

Tell us about her, Scott.

[MrBarnett]

I’ve been researching Maywood for years, but I only discovered this today: