How to make Ripperology better?

[Abby Normal]

Ironically, it was because of the Diary that Stephen & Johnno put Casebook together back in the mid 90's.

Judging by some of the responses above, even sarcasm is taken too seriously.

yes Im aware of that. at least one good thing came out of it! : )

[Abby Normal]

If we take Morgenstern as a suspect we have to ask if he is a suspect for Kelly's murder alone, and if so, then who killed the rest?
Or, was he responsible for most of the others, and ended with Kelly?
If a connection between Morgenstern & any of the other victims should turn up then this would be a welcome turn of events.

Morgenstern would at least be a genuine suspect as opposed to most of the 'straw-men' suspects we end up being presented with.

is morganstern the same as morganstone?

[John Wheat]

The moment of sense might have been the mention of Johannes Morgenstern in connection with the murder of Mary Kelly. Contrary to what Ike suggested earlier, I’m not pushing him as a suspect. I’m just amazed that the man who may well have been Kelly’s former pimp, a man with form for extreme violence against women, is barely ever discussed.

Hi Mr Barnett
I happen to agree with you. I for some time have rated men with histories of violence against women that could have been in London at the time of the Ripper murders as good suspects. My top suspect William Henry Bury had a history of violence against his wife who and I make no secret of this I believe was Jack. However after Bury I have James Kelly and now I would put Johannes Morgenstern at three. People seem to make the mistake of believing that Jack suddenly became a serial killer without any history of violence whatsoever. Which is frankly preposterous. Ripperology would be improved if suspects with a history of violence and were in or could have been in London were looked at before those that didn't.

Cheers John

[Abby Normal]

Hi Mr Barnett
I happen to agree with you. I for some time have rated men with histories of violence against women that could have been in London at the time of the Ripper murders as good suspects. My top suspect William Henry Bury had a history of violence against his wife who and I make no secret of this I believe was Jack. However after Bury I have James Kelly and now I would put Johannes Morgenstern at three. People seem to make the mistake of believing that Jack suddenly became a serial killer without any history of violence whatsoever. Which is frankly preposterous. Ripperology would be improved if suspects with a history of violence and were in or could have been in London were looked at before those that didn't.

Cheers John

I think everyone you mention is a valid suspect-also flemming, kosminsky and chapman all had a history of violence against women. and were there at the time.

however I would caution that the likes of hutch lech and druitt etc, might not have had a "documented" history of violence against women, but could have we just didnt hear about it.

Also, i would point out that post mortem type serial killers usually DONT have a documented history of violence against there victim gender ie-bundy, dahmer gein brudos. (until theyre caught of course). so theres that.

but dont get me wrong-suspects with a history of violence-it is a check mark in favor of there being the ripper.

[MrBarnett]

is morganstern the same as morganstone?

I think so, Abby. There were three Dutch Morgenstern brothers in London at the time. Johannes was the one who lived on the corner of Pennington Street and Breezer’s Hill when MJK was there. His partner was Elizabeth Boekee, the Mrs ‘Buki’ who accompanied Kelly to retrieve her dresses from the French lady who had been her previous employer in the west end.

[Abby Normal]

I think so, Abby. There were three Dutch Morgenstern brothers in London at the time. Johannes was the one who lived on the corner of Pennington Street and Breezer’s Hill when MJK was there. His partner was Elizabeth Boekee, the Mrs ‘Buki’ who accompanied Kelly to retrieve her dresses from the French lady who had been her previous employer in the west end.

thanks gary!

[MrBarnett]

Hi Mr Barnett
I happen to agree with you. I for some time have rated men with histories of violence against women that could have been in London at the time of the Ripper murders as good suspects. My top suspect William Henry Bury had a history of violence against his wife who and I make no secret of this I believe was Jack. However after Bury I have James Kelly and now I would put Johannes Morgenstern at three. People seem to make the mistake of believing that Jack suddenly became a serial killer without any history of violence whatsoever. Which is frankly preposterous. Ripperology would be improved if suspects with a history of violence and were in or could have been in London were looked at before those that didn't.

Cheers John

Hi John,

There was a group of people who, it seems, ran the brothels on the Breezer’s Hill/Pennington Street corner while MJK was there and who moved their operations to Limehouse shortly after her death. They included Johannes (John) Morgenstern and Stephen Maywood.

While in Limehouse, Morgenstern carried out a vicious attack on three women who had upset his female partner (presumably Elizabeth Boekee), kicking one between the legs, stabbing another, and after removing his jacket and waistcoat, beating the third with a poker.

Maywood was a horse dealer with connections to Romford who after leaving Limehouse went on to buy numerous properties - houses, farms etc - in Essex, several of which mysteriously burned down. His story is fascinating.

I agree with you that characters like this, and Bury, deserve at least as much attention, if not more, than Liverpudlian cotton brokers or cricket-playing barristers who have no history of serious violence against women and who may never even have set foot in the East End in the late 1880s.


Gary

[John Wheat]

I think everyone you mention is a valid suspect-also flemming, kosminsky and chapman all had a history of violence against women. and were there at the time.

however I would caution that the likes of hutch lech and druitt etc, might not have had a "documented" history of violence against women, but could have we just didnt hear about it.

Also, i would point out that post mortem type serial killers usually DONT have a documented history of violence against there victim gender ie-bundy, dahmer gein brudos. (until theyre caught of course). so theres that.

but dont get me wrong-suspects with a history of violence-it is a check mark in favor of there being the ripper.

You make some fair points Abby. But I don't rate Lechmere in particular as a suspect. We know a lot about him and there is nothing whatsoever that points to him being the Ripper. He found a body so what? Someone had to.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Hi John,

There was a group of people who, it seems, ran the brothels on the Breezer’s Hill/Pennington Street corner while MJK was there and who moved their operations to Limehouse shortly after her death. They included Johannes (John) Morgenstern and Stephen Maywood.

While in Limehouse, Morgenstern carried out a vicious attack on three women who had upset his female partner (presumably Elizabeth Boekee), kicking one between the legs, stabbing another, and after removing his jacket and waistcoat, beating the third with a poker.

Maywood was a horse dealer with connections to Romford who after leaving Limehouse went on to buy numerous properties - houses, farms etc - in Essex, several of which mysteriously burned down. His story is fascinating.

I agree with you that characters like this, and Bury, deserve at least as much attention, if not more, than Liverpudlian cotton brokers or cricket-playing barristers who have no history of serious violence against women and who may never even have set foot in the East End in the late 1880s.


Gary

You make some good points Gary and thanks for the information.

Cheers John

[rjpalmer]

I agree with you that characters like this, and Bury, deserve at least as much attention, if not more, than Liverpudlian cotton brokers or cricket-playing barristers who have no history of serious violence against women

The playing field is not even.

[MrBarnett]

The playing field is not even.

That must be a candidate for the wittiest response of the year.

[Iconoclast]

I agree with you that characters like this, and Bury, deserve at least as much attention, if not more, than Liverpudlian cotton brokers or cricket-playing barristers who have no history of serious violence against women and who may never even have set foot in the East End in the late 1880s.

Gary

Hi MrB.,

I couldn't agree with you more, though I have edited your comment as you missed a really critical bit out which unfortunately will have inevitably misled a few of the younger and more impressionable Ripperologists reading this:

I agree with you that characters like this, and Bury, deserve at least as much attention, if not more, than Liverpudlian cotton brokers who have no evidential link to the crimes such as a confessional scrapbook which predicted where we would find a specific set of initials and a confessional watch with an extremely good facsimile of the candidate's known signature inside or cricket-playing barristers who have no history of serious violence against women and who may never even have set foot in the East End in the late 1880s.

I'd hate anyone to read your comment and think that all Liverpool cotton brokers were equal where Wor Jacky Ripper was concerned.
and I have no doubt that that's not what you had intended to imply.

Cheers,

Ike

[erobitha]

Hi MrB.,

I couldn't agree with you more, though I have edited your comment as you missed a really critical bit out which unfortunately will have inevitably misled a few of the younger and more impressionable Ripperologists reading this:



I'd hate anyone to read your comment and think that all Liverpool cotton brokers were equal where Wor Jacky Ripper was concerned.
and I have no doubt that that's not what you had intended to imply.

Cheers,

Ike

People’s lack of knowledge of Maybrick is quite astounding.

Maybrick attacked his wife on numerous occasions. Not once, numerous. He was violent to his own wife.

A man violent against women who was a drug addict and was in London in September 1888. Confirmed alongside suffering with eye issues, by a letter from Gustav Witt to the Home Office. He had a business address at 46 Lime Street in 1866 - two minutes from Mitre Square.

He has more credentials as a candidate without the scrapbook or watch than most suspects mentioned on here.

These are circumstantial facts but they are facts none the less.

[Ozzy]

Maybe not what Ally originally had in mind although I think it would make Casebook better.
I give up reading a lot of threads because of it.

It's the way some regular posters here quote other posts. Mostly when it comes to multi-quoting, and that they don't seem to know how to do it correctly.

Instead of how you're supposed to do it, some of them grab the text they want to quote and put it in italics, others put it in bold, then there's others who don't change anything but just add some quotes ("text") or even some arrows (<text>) or the initials of the person they are quoting.

If it's somebody new, or maybe posts very rarely then that doesn't bother me much but I'm talking about members who have been posting for years and still do it.

Now I've been using computers since 1981 and have an interest in computers. I know that's not the case for most (the rest?) of you for which computers are just a means to an end.

But I can't imagine it taking more than an hour for anybody to get their head around how to do it. Or am I wrong there? Just keep experimenting using the preview function.

Weirdly, over the years, even though I've always thought the diary was a Barrett hoax, I find myself ending up in those threads often as I know that the members that post in those threads regularly all seem to know how to multi-quote so I know I won't have any problem reading the posts!

I doubt my post will change anything but ever since I started reading this forum, at least 20 years ago, it's bothered me. Now I've said it.

[rjpalmer]

People’s lack of knowledge of Maybrick is quite astounding.

Maybrick attacked his wife on numerous occasions. Not once, numerous.

Prove it. Name these 'numerous occasions.'