A Whip and a Prod

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  • drstrange169
    Superintendent
    • Feb 2008
    • 2409

    #586
    You seem too be playing semantics rather than serious research. Depending on which paper you choose to quote, Diemshitz referred to it as, "a cart", "a trap", a costermonger's barrow, and "a barrow like a costermonger's".
    dustymiller
    aka drstrange

    Comment

    • Herlock Sholmes
      Commissioner
      • May 2017
      • 21793

      #587
      586 posts later and is there a scintilla of evidence that Diemschutz couldn’t have prodded Stride with his whip?

      Answer, absolutely not.

      Someone must have put superglue on those conspiracy goggles. They just won’t come off
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment

      • NotBlamedForNothing
        Assistant Commissioner
        • Jan 2020
        • 3521

        #588
        Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
        You seem too be playing semantics rather than serious research. Depending on which paper you choose to quote, Diemshitz referred to it as, "a cart", "a trap", a costermonger's barrow, and "a barrow like a costermonger's".
        Daily Telegraph:

        I had been to the market near the Crystal Palace, and had a barrow like a costermonger's, drawn by a pony, which I keep in George-yard Cable-street.
        ...
        I put my whip handle to it, and tried to lift it up, but as I did not succeed I jumped down from my barrow and struck a match.


        A barrow like a costermonger's ... is a costermonger's barrow.
        Diemschitz referred to it in that manner, at the inquest.
        That he may have used generic terms like 'cart', when talking to the press, is irrelevant.
        It is you who are playing semantics.
        Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

        Comment

        • Ven
          Detective
          • Mar 2019
          • 303

          #589
          Your missing the word "hand" from your posts NBFN, Your picture in #585 is still a HAND cart,,, or whatever you want to call it.
          Show me a picture of a horse drawn cart that has "legs" on it. They pushed "hand" carts from the shallow and but used a horse/donkey from the that same end...so going in different directions... and the seat was above the wheels.
          What part of hand carts, horse carts are you missing?

          Comment

          • NotBlamedForNothing
            Assistant Commissioner
            • Jan 2020
            • 3521

            #590
            This is a hand cart...

            Click image for larger version

Name:	HC001-1A34.jpg
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Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	750499

            Now show me a picture of what you regard to be a costermonger's barrow...
            Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

            Comment

            • Herlock Sholmes
              Commissioner
              • May 2017
              • 21793

              #591
              Unless Diemschutz was dwarf, had short arms due to disease or was wearing a suit of armour then he’d have been able to have reached Stride with a whip from every Costermonger’s cart/barrow that has been shown on this thread with considerable ease. To try and prove that he couldn’t have done so is an exercise in futility as there are too many unknowns. You can’t ‘prove’ something by using ‘what if’s.’ How many more utterly desperate attempts are going to be made simply to disparage Diemschutz in order to shoehorn a non-existent conspiracy/cover up into place? There’s simply no evidence that Diemschutz lied.

              Talk about flogging a dead horse.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

              Comment

              • Ven
                Detective
                • Mar 2019
                • 303

                #592
                Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
                This is a hand cart...

                Click image for larger version

Name:	HC001-1A34.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	750499

                Now show me a picture of what you regard to be a costermonger's barrow...
                LOL HAHAHAHAHAHA... really NBFN... you want to compare that to a horse drawn cart LMFAO? Your image in #585 is a HAND cart... what are you not seeing?

                Comment

                • Ven
                  Detective
                  • Mar 2019
                  • 303

                  #593
                  Originally posted by notblamedfornothing View Post

                  it's still a costermonger's barrow. Diemschitz...

                  [daily news] i was driving a pony harnessed to a costermonger's barrow.

                  [morning advertiser] i had a barrow, something like a costermonger's, with me. I was sitting in it, and a pony was drawing it. It is a two-wheeled barrow.


                  these devices can be wheeled around by hand when necessary - hence the name barrow.

                  This was auctioned as 'a victorian costermonger's cart or barrow'...

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	505962-1-medium.jpg?v=63693605594537.jpg Views:	0 Size:	218.9 KB ID:	750476

                  if you don't think these pictures of costermonger barrows are actually costermonger barrows, then please provide a picture of a real costermonger barrow.
                  this is a hand cart >>> not pulled by a pony
                  Last edited by Ven; 02-06-2021, 03:01 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Herlock Sholmes
                    Commissioner
                    • May 2017
                    • 21793

                    #594
                    Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                    Daily Telegraph:

                    I had been to the market near the Crystal Palace, and had a barrow like a costermonger's, drawn by a pony, which I keep in George-yard Cable-street.
                    ...
                    I put my whip handle to it, and tried to lift it up, but as I did not succeed I jumped down from my barrow and struck a match.


                    A barrow like a costermonger's ... is a costermonger's barrow.
                    Diemschitz referred to it in that manner, at the inquest.
                    That he may have used generic terms like 'cart', when talking to the press, is irrelevant.
                    It is you who are playing semantics.
                    This makes no sense. If someone buys an item they don’t describe it as being like that item unless it wasn’t actually that item.

                    I wouldn’t go out and buy a cricket bat and then describe it as “a bat like a cricket bat.”

                    Regards

                    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                    Comment

                    • Ven
                      Detective
                      • Mar 2019
                      • 303

                      #595
                      A hand cart was pushed by the user... a horse cart was pulled by the horse... a hand cart had legs to stand the cart, a horse drawn cart did not ( please show me a picture where the horse drawn cart/barrow has legs"... i have used the word "cart" to describe the multitude of words you have used NBFN

                      Comment

                      • Ven
                        Detective
                        • Mar 2019
                        • 303

                        #596
                        Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                        It's still a costermonger's barrow. Diemschitz...

                        [Daily News] I was driving a pony harnessed to a costermonger's barrow.

                        [Morning Advertiser] I had a barrow, something like a costermonger's, with me. I was sitting in it, and a pony was drawing it. It is a two-wheeled barrow.


                        These devices can be wheeled around by hand when necessary - hence the name barrow.

                        This was auctioned as 'A Victorian costermonger's cart or barrow'...

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	505962-1-medium.jpg?v=63693605594537.jpg
Views:	311
Size:	218.9 KB
ID:	750476

                        If you don't think these pictures of costermonger barrows are actually costermonger barrows, then please provide a picture of a real costermonger barrow.
                        THIS IS A HAND CART... cant you tell by the handles and the leg supports!!!!

                        Comment

                        • drstrange169
                          Superintendent
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 2409

                          #597
                          This thread has been going 18 months and still there hasn't been a shred of evidence to sipport the claims in post #1. Can we now finish with this thread?
                          dustymiller
                          aka drstrange

                          Comment

                          • drstrange169
                            Superintendent
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 2409

                            #598
                            Sipport? Too many cocktails last night!
                            dustymiller
                            aka drstrange

                            Comment

                            • Ven
                              Detective
                              • Mar 2019
                              • 303

                              #599
                              Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                              Sipport? Too many cocktails last night!
                              LOL this cart has no legs (or arms)... so no need to continue!!

                              Comment

                              • Ven
                                Detective
                                • Mar 2019
                                • 303

                                #600
                                provide photos of "carts", with legs, drawn by a pony, from the correct end, and we will continue discussion.

                                Comment

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