Diemschutz' pony and cart - an obstruction to proceedings?

[c.d.]

The cashous evidence shows us 2 things, that she was about to freshen her mouth and breath, and that her killer struck quickly and with finality. If Israels account is accurate, why would she be about to freshen her mouth only to be manhandled? And if she clenched them when he assulated her, why would she still be clenching them after moving into the passageway with the same man that just assaulted her?

Hello Michael,

I would answer because Schwartz only saw Stride being pushed, he did not witness her murder. The evidence you cite speaks to another killer other than the B.S. man.

P.S. It is cachous not cashous. No need to thank me. Just trying to help.

c.d.

[Ven]

lol, the "circumflex scapular arteries and brachial plexus nerves"... i think it's time for me to leave this thread... i only speak english..

And cool Jon Guy..I understand now.

[DJA]

not directed at anyone but... so any victim, at any point in time, in the history of the world, that had specific bruising , is a related case?

Not being facetious in my comment above, but there may have been other victims, and if "man-handled" would have similar bruisings would they not?

If someone had sufficient anatomical knowledge and skill,the circumflex scapular arteries and brachial plexus nerves are excellent targets if one wishes to disable an adversary.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon,
sorry, I may have said it the wrong way.
What I am trying to say is that just because two murder victims have the same bruising, doesn't make them related. Two people could get the same bruising in two violent attacks at the same time in two other parts of the world, as I'm sure must have happened at sometime. If you need to murder someone by slashing their throat, the method might/could be the same used by a different attacker a week later. Yes, similar bruising may have occurred, but by two different individuals.
I may have missed your point again(that's what i hate about text messages), but agree that it might help with "HOW" it happened, which after re-reading your post might be your point.

Ven
"but Willy won't...Willy won't ...go home"

Hi Ven

No problem bud. I understand you.
Yes, I was thinking that the bruises on McKenzie seem very similar to Strides, and a possible HOW (not WHO).
Dr Phillips attributed the bruises on McKenzie to the killer`s hand holding down McKenzie whilst her throat was cut.
Of course, the matching bruises are my observation only, and not any medics. You may not agree with my observation.

[Ven]

Hi Jon,
sorry, I may have said it the wrong way.
What I am trying to say is that just because two murder victims have the same bruising, doesn't make them related. Two people could get the same bruising in two violent attacks at the same time in two other parts of the world, as I'm sure must have happened at sometime. If you need to murder someone by slashing their throat, the method might/could be the same used by a different attacker a week later. Yes, similar bruising may have occurred, but by two different individuals.
I may have missed your point again(that's what i hate about text messages), but agree that it might help with "HOW" it happened, which after re-reading your post might be your point.

Ven
"but Willy won't...Willy won't ...go home"

[Michael W Richards]

not directed at anyone but... so any victim, at any point in time, in the history of the world, that had specific bruising , is a related case?

Not being facetious in my comment above, but there may have been other victims, and if "man-handled" would have similar bruisings would they not?

Almost certainly, and that was the reason for my previous post.

[Jon Guy]

not directed at anyone but... so any victim, at any point in time, in the history of the world, that had specific bruising , is a related case?

No, its not about connecting the victims, but when a doctor gives a reason for specific bruising, it gives us a good starting point for how similar bruising on another victim may have occurred.

[Ven]

not directed at anyone but... so any victim, at any point in time, in the history of the world, that had specific bruising , is a related case?

Not being facetious in my comment above, but there may have been other victims, and if "man-handled" would have similar bruisings would they not?

[Michael W Richards]

Alice McKenzie had similar bruising on the front of her shoulders, and Dr Phillips put this down to McKenzie been forced down by a hand whilst her throat was cut.

So did Liz Stride Jon, but I don't think we can use that to match up a victim with specific killer. I think that the assailant would use some method of reducing movement before cutting, applying pressure on the victim would do that. Although in Strides case I believe she was poked in the chest by someone she provoked. As she had her back to the wall inside the passage. She pushes past the man to head to the street, he grabs and twists her scarf from behind to stop her, pulls her back in behind the gate by the scarf, and slides a knife across her throat while dropping her. Not sure that he intended to actually kill her. Which would be just another aspect that is unlike a Ripper crime.

[Jon Guy]

1. She is grabbed by the shoulders from behind, and under the colar bones from in front (so two men)...

Alice McKenzie had similar bruising on the front of her shoulders, and Dr Phillips put this down to McKenzie been forced down by a hand whilst her throat was cut.

[DJA]

If time was taken to actually read the thread,an alternative to the cachous and the assault had been given ...... again.

BS man was a term that was dragged out of Matthew Packer by assistant Commissioner Alexander Carmichael Bruce.

[Michael W Richards]

The cashous evidence shows us 2 things, that she was about to freshen her mouth and breath, and that her killer struck quickly and with finality. If Israels account is accurate, why would she be about to freshen her mouth only to be manhandled? And if she clenched them when he assulated her, why would she still be clenching them after moving into the passageway with the same man that just assaulted her?

BSM is a creation intended to bring an offsite suspect into the mix, with anti-Semitic slurs throw in for good measure. Thereby eliminating Jewish men onsite from suspicions. Created by a Jew...with "theatrical appearance". Seen by no other witness. An episode that doesn't merit a single mention in any of the Inquest documentation.

[Michael W Richards]

>> Another lie in bold above, all other witness accounts have only the left hand gate open. Its why Liz wasnt visible from the street, she was behind it, and we have corroberation for that to have been the normal case by prior witness observations on other nights.<<


Ummm ...

"I went into the yard, and noticed that the gates were opened." William Wess

"I saw nothing on the ground. The gates were thrown wide back. Morris Eagle

"I passed the gate of the yard a few minutes before twelve o'clock alone. The doors were open, and, so far as I could tell, there was nothing inside then." The young women meeting her sweetheart as reported in the Echo.

Well.. I admit that I am mistaken, my single source doesn't trump 3 separate sources. But on that note, Louis's singular account of what happened and when, and Eagles singular account of his arrival back at the club, and Israel's singular account of what he says he saw doesn't trump 4 separate witness accounts who say they were by a dying woman lying in the passageway at 12:45.

[drstrange169]

>>Cachous in the yard suggests a struggle.<<

Dr Phillips's full and more precise quote,

"The CORONER. - Does the presence of the cachous in her hand show that it was done suddenly or would it simply show a muscular grasp?
Witness. - No; I cannot say. You will remember some of the cachous were found in the gutter."

Dr Blackwell was re-called to explain the errant breath sweeteners,

"I may add that I removed the cachous from the left hand of the deceased, which was nearly open. The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view. It was I who spilt them in removing them from the hand."



>> A struggle suggests noise and probable cries for help.<<

All witnesses concurred the was no sign of a struggle.



>>A struggle also has implications for how she was held down to have her throat cut,...<<

But you've told us Mrs Strides throat was cut whilst she was standing?



>> ... and perhaps in what part of the yard also.<<

Dr Phillips said,

"Were there any spots of blood anywhere else? - I could trace none except that which I considered had been transplanted - if I may use the term - from the original flow from the neck."

So transplanted blood by footprints were only found emanating from the blood stream. Thanks Blackwell's assistant, Johnston, we know those transplanted bloody foot prints only happened AFTER he arrived,

"Can you say whether any one had stepped into the stream of blood? - There was no mark of it."



>>Except that her face ended up clean, and clothes were tidy.<<

"Mud on face and left side of the head. Matted on the hair and left side. ... Examining her jacket I found that although there was a slight amount of mud on the right side, the left was well plastered with mud." Dr Phillips

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

The whip was just the beginning, wait till you get to the gang of Jews with their blanket, Deimschitz' blood lusting pony and Fanny Mortimer being in on the whole thing.
I eagerly await the trademark blue shaking heads.