Diemschutz' pony and cart - an obstruction to proceedings?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Hello Spider,

>> I wasn't quoting from any newspaper it was a court document as far as I can remember. Newspapers, as they are now, are unreliable. II will dig out the book later.<<

The quote is from The Times 2nd Oct 1888 page 6.



It's in the indispensable "Ultimate JTR Sourcebook, which is maybe why you're thinking it might be official.

When my pony shied I was passing the body, and was right by when I got down.

What time-span do you suppose is represented by the comma?
In this post I "guesstimate" up to 9 seconds. That is based on a velocity range of 2-2.5ft/s.
Having now watched the following video, I reckon that is optimistic.

The fairly rough and unevenly laid pavement, combined with a tireless cart, suggests a velocity of only around 1.5ft/s.
That increases the shy-to-stop time-span to 12 seconds, when "right by" is assumed to mean "right by the body" (that is, the thing that causes the pony to shy).
On the other hand, if "right by" refers to the side door, the the shy-to-stop time-span goes to well over 20 seconds.
That's long enough for Jack to walk inside and sign the visitors book!

[drstrange169]

>> If the pony and cart were parked outside the backdoor, where was Jack the Ripper?<<

Out the gate and on his way to Mitre Sq while Deimshitz parked his cart (if it was the same killer).

[drstrange169]

>> How does Mrs Mortimer become aware of the details of Mrs Diemschutz' location, and of the probable audibility of outside events, to her?<<

Fanny wasn't interviewed until the next day. As the Echo reported the street was alive with gossip by then.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Couples in a big city having a quick knee-trembler on a Saturday night in a dark spot a few feet from a roadway isn't an usual occurrence, now or back in 1888.

How far was the Bricklayer's Arms Public House on Settles street, from the murder location?
Why go that far, when any dark spot will do?

Also, was Stride actually soliciting that night, or out with a man, having a good time?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I'll leave the final words to the Corner's summation,

"At 1 o'clock the body was found by the manager of the club. He had been out all day, and returned at the time. He was in a two-wheeled barrow drawn by a pony, and as he entered the gateway his pony shied at some object on his right. ... it was too dark to see what the object was and he passed on further down the yard. He returned on foot, and on searching found the body of deceased ..."

In other words:

Parking at the door is not compatible with the whip probing.

So:

Have you now accepted that the whip probing is a fiction?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Fanny wasn't interviewed until the next day. As the Echo reported the street was alive with gossip by then.

Your attitude seems to be:

If the evidence is incompatible with my theory, the source must be regarded as unreliable

[drstrange169]

>>If the evidence is incompatible with my theory, the source must be regarded as unreliable<<

I'm assuming you meant if the evidence is compatible with my theory ... ;-)

[NotBlamedForNothing]

>> If the pony and cart were parked outside the backdoor, where was Jack the Ripper?<<

Out the gate and on his way to Mitre Sq while Deimshitz parked his cart (if it was the same killer).

I reckon he just ducked under the cart, as suggested by Mrs Mortimer

[drstrange169]

>>Also, was Stride actually soliciting that night, ...<<

I never wrote she was.

[drstrange169]

>> How far was the Bricklayer's Arms Public House on Settles street, from the murder location?
Why go that far, when any dark spot will do?<<

I'm never surprised by how far people will go to have sex.

[drstrange169]

Fresh eyes are always welcome, but the problem here is you haven't provided anything, in the various snippets of your theory you've offered thus far, that is compatible with the evidence.

In fact, come to think of it, we don't know exactly what your theory is.

[DJA]

Liz and friend left The Bricklayers Arms at 11 pm.
It was three blocks away.

The "kitchen door" was 18 feet inside Dutfield's Yard.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

>>Also, was Stride actually soliciting that night, ...<<

I never wrote she was.

It was an open question.
Stride is seen out that night over multiple hours, drinking with a man/men, passionately kissing a man/men, and possibly buying grapes with a man.
The autopsy finds undigested food in her stomach, suggesting she didn't drink on an empty one.
This almost sounds like a date, and there is enough money involved to suggest that the man had a place of his own.
Poor ol' Liz must have felt cheap up against that wall...

[NotBlamedForNothing]

>> How far was the Bricklayer's Arms Public House on Settles street, from the murder location?
Why go that far, when any dark spot will do?<<

I'm never surprised by how far people will go to have sex.

I wouldn't know, being unworldy and all

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Liz and friend left The Bricklayers Arms at 11 pm.
It was three blocks away.

The "kitchen door" was 18 feet inside Dutfield's Yard.

Thanks Dave.

Three blocks? Evidently he got quite frustrated!

I may have over-corrected the pull-up time above. 18-20 seconds is probably a better estimate.