E Petitions and Ripper Files and papers

[mariab]

Obviously that includes the Chief Constable's Register. Whether it also includes any actual files in MEPO 38 I don't know.

I'm under the impression that it does include MEPO 38, Chris.

Actually, it's interesting that when I looked at the entries for MEPO 38 in the National Archives catalogue three years ago (http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...ount=44</span>) there were descriptions and dates for only 48 of the 182 files. Now there appear to be only a small number without descriptions and dates, though the ones with descriptions aren't necessarily open as I assumed then.

Might I inquire when was the last time that someone had a look at these? I can ask at another occasion, in a PM.

On the contrary, in the practical world perfection is too much to hope for, and we have to decide all the time whether to support things we're not 100% happy with. Obviously that's a personal decision we all have to make for ourselves.

That's exactly how I see it myself.

Just trying to be constructive (which is perhaps doomed from the outset), I wonder if it's known what the cost of a copy of the complete redacted version would be. I imagine that there would be people willing to sit and do the searching, if copies could be provided.

Problem is, Chris, I finally saw a couple of the redacted pages during the recent conference, and there are hardly any names left not covered by ink in there. But I'm sure you would know how to proceed against this problem? Comparing the redacted ones to Clutterbuck might not be of help, as I'm under the impression that he didn't discuss the Whitechapel murders investigation.

[Supe]

Trevor,

The trouble with you paul is that you have no sense of humour

You have made many a surly, stupid statement on these boards, but the above is a gross libel. Say what one might about Paul -- and you have certainly pushed the limits -- to deny that he has a rich and facile sense of humor is either a mindless insult or indicates a serious lack of understanding what the term means on your part.

Don.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,

The trouble with you paul is that you have no sense of humour

You have made many a surly, stupid statement on these boards, but the above is a gross libel. Say what one might about Paul -- and you have certainly pushed the limits -- to deny that he has a rich and facile sense of humor is either a mindless insult or indicates a serious lack of understanding what the term means on your part.

Don.

Well a serious lack of understanding thats rich coming from you. How ever you have the cheek to come out with that when you yourslef have upset more then enough posters on here and on JTR forums with your arrogant know it all attitude.

This thread is now detiriating into personal conflicts which is not what it was set up for i would ask that all the persons who seem to want to make this personal desist. You have all made your various points quite clear and the petitions are not going to change. So lets see what happens.

[Carol]

Hi everyone!

I don't know if anyone is interested but I've just signed the perdition.

Don't forget - if at first you don't succeed TRY, TRY AGAIN.

We must never give up trying to get access to ALL THE INFORMATION. Surprises do happen - for instance, I never thought the Berlin Wall would be torn down!

Also, I really feel we must try our hardest to get some sort of justice for those poor women.

I'd just like to thank everyone who has entered into the pro's and con's of the petition on this thread so that I could make up my own mind.

By the way Cam, I'll miss you.

Love
Carol

[Chris]

I'm under the impression that it does include MEPO 38, Chris.

Might I inquire when was the last time that someone had a look at these? I can ask at another occasion, in a PM.

I'm not sure what you mean. I checked the online catalogue before posting the message you've just replied to.

The files with descriptions don't appear to refer to the case. (Apart from one item from 1880, the earliest dates from 1916.) But there's no way of knowing whether any of the files without descriptions and dates do. Those are now relatively small in number, though.

Problem is, Chris, I finally saw a couple of the redacted pages during the recent conference, and there are hardly any names left not covered by ink in there. But I'm sure you would know how to proceed against this problem? Comparing the redacted ones to Clutterbuck might not be of help, as I'm under the impression that he didn't discuss the Whitechapel murders investigation.

Yes, but Trevor Marriott was able to identify two relevant entries in the redacted version because they contained the phrases "Jack the Ripper" and "Whitechapel Murders," which hadn't been redacted. He was then provided with copies of those two entries in full.

If I understand correctly, only part of the redacted version has been checked in this way, so there is potential for identifying further relevant entries and (with luck) then getting unredacted copies of them (particularly if they contain nothing that could be construed as a reference to an informant.)

[Supe]

Trev,

Well a serious lack of understanding thats rich coming from you. How ever you have the cheek to come out with that when you yourslef have upset more then enough posters on here and on JTR forums with your arrogant know it all attitude.

Whatever are you on about? Your comment has nothing to so with your slur aimed at Paul, so I guess you really don't understand the term "sense of humor." As to your insult aimed at me, what few things I do know I will post, but about that of which I have no knowledge I keep sensibly quiet. An attitude you might adopt to your advantage.

Don.

[mariab]

I checked the online catalogue before posting the message you've just replied to. The files with descriptions don't appear to refer to the case. (Apart from one item from 1880, the earliest dates from 1916.) But there's no way of knowing whether any of the files without descriptions and dates do. Those are now relatively small in number, though.

Thank you so much for clarifying. It looks like the librarians at the NA are going through these files. But how can you mean that “one item from 1880“ refers to the case? Or did you mean, “from the 1880s“?

Yes, but Trevor Marriott was able to identify two relevant entries in the redacted version because they contained the phrases "Jack the Ripper" and "Whitechapel Murders," which hadn't been redacted. He was then provided with copies of those two entries in full. If I understand correctly, only part of the redacted version has been checked in this way, so there is potential for identifying further relevant entries and (with luck) then getting unredacted copies of them (particularly if they contain nothing that could be construed as a reference to an informant.)

Thank you again for clarifying. I wasn't aware that Trevor Marriott ONLY has had access to the redacted xerox copies, and only part of them. I was under the impression he went through the entire thing in one day. A second search (even under similar hurried circumstances) would certainly be of benefit.

[Trevor Marriott]

I'm not sure what you mean. I checked the online catalogue before posting the message you've just replied to.

The files with descriptions don't appear to refer to the case. (Apart from one item from 1880, the earliest dates from 1916.) But there's no way of knowing whether any of the files without descriptions and dates do. Those are now relatively small in number, though.



Yes, but Trevor Marriott was able to identify two relevant entries in the redacted version because they contained the phrases "Jack the Ripper" and "Whitechapel Murders," which hadn't been redacted. He was then provided with copies of those two entries in full.

If I understand correctly, only part of the redacted version has been checked in this way, so there is potential for identifying further relevant entries and (with luck) then getting unredacted copies of them (particularly if they contain nothing that could be construed as a reference to an informant.)

When I first identified the entries I did just that slap another request in for access to those entries in un redacted form. Those initial requests were refused. It was not until much later that they agreed to release them.

The police argued that they could not distinguish between entries that were not informant related to those which were. The heavy redaction of all proper names except for police officers names has made the remaining entries almost impossible to decipher.

[Trevor Marriott]

Thank you so much for clarifying. It looks like the librarians at the NA are going through these files. But how can you mean that “one item from 1880“ refers to the case? Or did you mean, “from the 1880s“?


Thank you again for clarifying. I wasn't aware that Trevor Marriott ONLY has had access to the redacted xerox copies, and only part of them. I was under the impression he went through the entire thing in one day. A second search (even under similar hurried circumstances) would certainly be of benefit.

I did go through them all in unredcated form

[PaulB]

No it shouldnt the thread was started by me to bring to the attention of members two e petitions which had been started by two other parties it was you and Stewart who have attempted to destroy it in your inimitable way.

Don't be even more ridiculous than you have to be. Anyone can go back to your first post and see the second paragraph:

"I was dissapointed to see comments on JTR forums from two respected researchers who in my opinion should have known better. Both poured water on this project, both went to great lengths to elablorate on how wonderful they were and that they had tried to get access etc, and highlighted how they had failed."

Neither Stewart nor I went to great lengths to elaborate how wonderful we are, there was no requirement on you to draw attention to anything we'd written to another message board...

Oh, but why bother. You live in your own tiny world...

[PaulB]

The police argued that they could not distinguish between entries that were not informant related to those which were.

Who could make that distinction?

[Stewart P Evans]

No Such Thing

No it shouldnt the thread was started by me to bring to the attention of members two e petitions which had been started by two other parties it was you and Stewart who have attempted to destroy it in your inimitable way.

Paul and I have done no such thing. We merely pointed out the inherent problems with the petition.

And to include the phrase 'unwarranted secrecy surrounding this historically-important series of unsolved murders has prevailed for over 120 years' is factually incorrect and certainly guaranteed to earn the trust and co-operation of no one. It merely indicates that they are from the Trevor Marriott school of charm and enlightenment and will get them nowhere.

[mariab]

The heavy redaction of all proper names except for police officers names has made the remaining entries almost impossible to decipher.

My impression too after FINALLY seeing a couple redacted pages from the ledgers during the coffee break at the recent conference.

I did go through them all in unredcated form

That's what I thought, and thanks for corroborating.

I most solemny attest that Paul Begg has an amazing sense of humour, which (due to my newbie status) I first managed to witness recently, during the “you're so lucky; my grandpa and the budgie“ thread over at the other site. Call me silly, but this is a thread I had tremendous fun participating in and often think fondly of.

[Scott Nelson]

You're silly.

[mariab]

You're silly.

Engaging in silly activities is very relaxing/rewarding.