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  • #1

    Mary Kelly - Profile

    Hi all, just wondered if you could help me. I was reading this websites profile on Mary Kelly and it states:

    Almost everything that is known about Mary Jane Kelly comes from Joseph Barnett

    So I decided to do a bit of research myself on a geneology site and came up with this and wondered what you guys think. Do you think this is the correct Mary? I know that middle names can be a bit iffy in geneology but the time line and location seem correct.

    If more details are required I can upload the census or better still if anyone has a complete geneology history and maybe the name of her murderer let me know.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by chudmuskett; 01-07-2011, 11:32 PM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    pro et contra

    Hello Chud. Nice research.

    Here are some pros and cons. The name is good (with the exception of the middle--as you point out). Birthplace works as does her final destination.

    On the other hand, her being in Whitechapel as a very young girl seems to conflict with Barnett's story about her sojourn in Wales. It also seems to conflict with the length of time she was in London.

    Did you check to see if this same entry occurred in later censuses?

    Keep up the good work!

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment

    • #3
      Thanks for the response. I will get back to you as soon as I find anything else but this could take some time and its getting late, will have a look tomorrow.
      Last edited by chudmuskett; 01-07-2011, 11:56 PM.

      Comment

      • #4
        How about this one then, the birth date doesnt match this time but who knows for sure.

        Now I must go to bed, good night.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by chudmuskett; 01-08-2011, 12:17 AM.

        Comment

        • #5
          even better

          Hello Chud. This is surely fascinating! The spousal name is correct as is the father's.

          But, as you point out, the age is very much off.

          I wonder about census listings and descendants? It sounds almost like this could be the origin of Barnett's story. Read into that what you will.

          Nice find.

          Cheers.
          LC

          Comment

          • #6
            edmund davis

            Hello Chud. I looked up Edmund Davis and found this. Ironically, it involves a Risca colliery explosion but:

            1. It is 20 years too early (ie, not THE Risca explosion).

            2. Davis was sacked but not killed.

            Probably all coincidence--unless someone were piecing together a story from known facts.

            Snippet is from The Evening Herald, Wednesday, January 30, 1861.

            Cheers.
            LC
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • #7
              Always good to see people doing research!
              The second case is interesting I think. The best lies are ones which have a grain of truth in them. It seems possible that some Mary's story may have been stolen from someone else........................
              In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

              Comment

              • #8
                why

                Hello Kat. Thanks.

                "It seems possible that some [of] Mary's story may have been stolen from someone else........................"

                Ah! And thereby hangs a tale!

                At one time, I was just "certain" that Barnett had fabricated the "Kelly story." Then I read Chris Scott's excellent book on Kelly and realised (as Chris says) that it could be MJ herself who was lying to Barnett.

                The obvious question is, "Why?"

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment

                • #9
                  Well she may have been wanting to forget something from her past. Maybe coming to London was a sort of new start for her and so she decided to have a story to explain things about herself but it wasn't her. Maybe she thought the idea of being a young widow was better than just been being a good girl gone bad.
                  In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Hello Kat,

                    I think you may be right, plus, who is to say Mary Jane Kelly is even her real name? I mean, we have searched for her for years, we just cannot find her. What's to say that is not her real name? If she conjured the widow story, why believe anything else she says.

                    Although, truth is always laced in the lie.

                    Yours truly,

                    Corey
                    Washington Irving:

                    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                    Stratford-on-Avon

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                      Hello Chud. I looked up Edmund Davis and found this. Ironically, it involves a Risca colliery explosion but:

                      1. It is 20 years too early (ie, not THE Risca explosion).

                      2. Davis was sacked but not killed.

                      Probably all coincidence--unless someone were piecing together a story from known facts.

                      Snippet is from The Evening Herald, Wednesday, January 30, 1861.

                      Cheers.
                      LC
                      Hi there, thanks for that, most interesting. Unfortuantly, although I may do a bit of research I do not however have the means to prove anything. I will leave that to the experts (if they can ever agree on anything)

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        I have suspected that she was reducing her claimed age to increase her street value but not by that much; more like 10 years perhaps. No proof of that but the practice wasn't unheard of then nor is it now.
                        This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                        Stan Reid

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                          Hello Kat,

                          I think you may be right, plus, who is to say Mary Jane Kelly is even her real name? I mean, we have searched for her for years, we just cannot find her. What's to say that is not her real name? If she conjured the widow story, why believe anything else she says.

                          Although, truth is always laced in the lie.

                          Yours truly,

                          Corey
                          Your absolutely right Corey, I feel that very little in this entire case is black or white but gives the imprssion it is an open and shut case. If we were to remove everything that wasn't hard fact we would be left with very little. Its like hundreds of people trying to reading a detective book that has been burnt and they are all giving there opinion on the charred bits. But on the other hand, everyone likes a mystery and for me its the history aspect.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            It would be easy to knock a few years off!! I think I could get away with 27!!
                            In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              possible

                              Hello Kat.

                              "Maybe she thought the idea of being a young widow was better than just been being a good girl gone bad."

                              It very likely is. But do we have any proof that she had "gone bad"?

                              Cheers.
                              LC

                              Comment

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