Mary Kelly - Profile

[lynn cates]

good points

Hello Corey.

" . . . who is to say Mary Jane Kelly is even her real name?"

Precisely!

"If she conjured the widow story, why believe anything else she says[?]"

Right again! Good point.

I think we need to view her case with a very critical eye.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

experts

Hello Chud. What experts? (heh-heh) I think everyone is just a researcher.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

age

Hello Stan. Do you REALLY think a lady would lie about her age? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fast

Hello Chud.

" . . . I feel that very little in this entire case is black or white . . . If we were to remove everything that wasn't hard fact we would be left with very little."

That's quite true. But we do know that it had a very fast inquest. Compare that to the slow, drawn out inquests with Polly and Annie. And THAT in spite of the much more transparent nature of their cases.

Cheers.
LC

[miss marple]

Here we go again. Hate to prick enthusiasm, but there is more to genealogy than taking two random Mary Kellys [ age difference over twenty years] and try to weld them together to achieve a result. I have been looking at ,Mary Kellys for years, there were at least seventy on 1881 census, not counting the ones born in Ireland, or the married ones. A consistent chain of probability must be established over several years, of the subject's life, births marriages deaths , census records, parents brothers, sisters, each piece of evidence matching the next, I could give you loads of Marys , but only in one census, which is meaningless.
Davies was one of the commonest welsh names, there are literally hundreds and I have found many Davies of all ages killed in various mine explosions in Wales in the 19th century,but unless one can find at lest two matching records,birth census, or birth, marriage, marriage davies death then she will remain a mystery to us.
Miss Marple

[jason_c]

Hello Kat.

"Maybe she thought the idea of being a young widow was better than just been being a good girl gone bad."

It very likely is. But do we have any proof that she had "gone bad"?

Cheers.
LC

Prostitution, alcoholism, and doing a runner from her last accomodation without paying her arrears.

[corey123]

Prostitution wasn't seen as it is now, not to say they didn't veiw it as unmoral, they either did that, or die.

The choice seemed easy to them.

[lynn cates]

verification

Hello Jason.

"Prostitution, alcoholism, and doing a runner from her last accom[m]odation without paying her arrears."

I wonder if there is any verification of these 3 items--apart from Barnett?

Cheers.
LC

[corey123]

Hello Lynn,

I wouldn't say she had "gone bad", rather, resorted to prostitution to survive. Then she possibly got caught up in alcoholism.

[lynn cates]

veracity

Hello Corey. All quite possible. She was seen drunk (or supposedly so) with BM.

But I wonder how much of what we believe about her comes from sources OUTSIDE of Barnett? If very little, then the truth stands or falls with his veracity, or hers in relaying these stories to him.

Cheers.
LC

[corey123]

I would say the only solid amount of information we have is that she died on November 9th, 1888, and used the name Mary Kelly.

Aside from these, we are open to guessing.

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Corey. I'm with you.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Hi Lynn,

"Prostitution, alcoholism, and doing a runner from her last accom[m]odation without paying her arrears."

I wonder if there is any verification of these 3 items--apart from Barnett?

From a press statement by Lizzie Albrook:

"About the last thing she said was, 'Whatever you do don't you do no wrong and turn out as I have.' She had often spoken to me in this way and warned me against going on the streets as she had done. She told me too, that she was heartily sick of the life she was leading and wished she had money enough to go back to Ireland where her people lived. I don't believe she would have gone out as she did if she had not been obliged to do so to keep herself from starvation. She had talked to me about her friends several times and on one occasion told me she had a female relation in London who was on the stage".

from inquest testimony of Mary Cox:

"I live at No. 5 Room, Miller's-court. It is the last house on the left-hand side of the court. I am a widow, and get my living on the streets. I have known the deceased for eight or nine months as the occupant of No. 13 Room. She was called Mary Jane. I last saw her alive on Thursday night, at a quarter to twelve, very much intoxicated."

From a press statement by Elizabeth Foster:

"I have known Mary Jane Kelly for the last eighteen months, and we were always good friends. She used to tell me she came from Limerick. She was as nice a woman as one could find, and although she was an unfortunate, I don't think she went on the streets whilst she lived with Barnet..."

From inquest testimony of Julia Venturney:

"I was awake all night and could not sleep. I have known the person occupying No.13 for about 4 months.I knew the man who I saw downstairs [Joseph Barnett] he is called Joe, he lived with her until quite recently. I have heard him say that he did not like her going out on the streets, he frequently gave her money, he was very kind to her, he said he would not live with her while she led that course of life, she used to get tipsy occasionally..."



Do you have any evidence that she was other than what these people described her as being?... remembering that Mc'Carthy ( just as Mrs. Richardson before) had a vested interest in playing down the fact that prostitutes lived in his court.

[lynn cates]

evidence

Hello Hunter. No, I don't think there is much evidence to be had in her case.

Of course, if I wished to create a certain facade, I would make some of the same statements that MJK made.

A warning? Yes, I warn my son frequently not to turn out as I did--stay away from the liberal arts. It is not always clear what turning out bad means.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Hi Lynn,

She was talking about going out on the streets to keep from starving. Certainly the implication is clear.