Pentagram

[The Grave Maurice]

Also, I'm looking for a book that D'onston wrote in 1903 doe anyone remember the name of it and were i could view a copy of it....

Is this the book you had in mind?

http://kobek.com/patristic/patristicgospels-one.pdf

[DVV]

D'Onston would have written CRAVAT, not NECKS.

Amitiés all

[Tom_Wescott]

Polly
Annie
Catherine
Mary
Ada
N ???

Our work is not yet done.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Howard Brown]

Good one Tom.

Is it plausible that D'onston could have snuck out of the hospital and killed five random women? Yes, remotely, not realistically plausible.-- My gal Al

There's no reason for suggesting D'Onston would want to leave the hospital, however remote the concept is.. What reason would he want to leave the hospital if the basis of his motivation for being the Ripper has been shown to be built on air and fabricated claims ?

. So we are clear. You are now saying that London policy on safety was not aimed at keeping people in, only out. So therefore, you admit, that there was every likelihood that a patient could have left should they have chosen to do so. Thanks. That's all then.
　
　
　
I meant nothing of the sort. I said the all encompassing protocol to include both insy and outsy in the previous post.

Of course the policy of the hospital was set up in case patients desirous of leaving the hospital after hours asked to do so. If they wanted to leave, there was the matter of appealing to the House Governor. To what degree the departure of patients was in the construction of this regulationwas undoubtedly of lesser significance in the protocol's creation. Read the protocol Mike provided before. The protocol stipulates how those from within or without enter or leave the premises. Stephenson could ill afford, and he is but one example Ally, to lose his place in the Hospital if he was deemed sufficiently salubrious.
There's not only no reason to suggest Stephenson for wanting to leave the Ward, there's no reason to suggest that his complaint was not serious as the 134 day stay would warrant. Only the silly "faked neurasthenia" concept kept this nonsense alive as long as it did. Its over.

The other point within this issue that neither of us addressed was that had anyone wanted to leave the premises, how far from the front door does anyone think they'd let someone travel if they had asked to step outside ?

Daniel:

Since I originally responded to your posts before, it would be to your advantage to read the Cremers memoirs and consider that nothing....not some...not a lot...not a few...but nothing that was used to promote him as a suspect pans out, not only there but in any of the four books promoting the dead duck. Its your time and your effort being spent in pursuing the study of Stephenson. Yet, if you are not in possession of all the facts, you might find it less satisfying down the road. I speak from experience.

[Tom_Wescott]

There's no reason for suggesting D'Onston would want to leave the hospital, however remote the concept is..

Well, he was an alcoholic and there were pubs right across the street. That's a pretty good reason, I would say. Wasn't his first meeting(s) with George Marsh in the pub timed to have occurred before D'Onston's release from hospital?

I'm not wanting to get in the middle of a pissing contest here, but I personally think his alcoholism would have presented a reason for him to have wanted to get out and indulge.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Howard Brown]

Tom:

Your guess as to whatever reason he or anyone else would have for stepping outside is as good as mine.

Yet, I would think anyone's desire to bend an elbow while already in the hospital would register low on the scale...considering that if he got caught, its out on the streets for him and anyone else for that matter that would attempt it.

Come help me shovel. Its like Canada already over here.

[The Grave Maurice]

Its like Canada already over here.

Lucky you. Besides, a little snow won't hurt ya.

[Howard Brown]

Grave:

I feel like crawling into a grave after shoveling out there around 6 PM. All the places to put this stuff have been exhausted and we've got two more snowfalls coming next week. Over 6 feet so far in less than 5 weeks here.
Not gonna be easy to make work tomorrow...unless Nina shovels faster.

[Phil Carter]

GM,

They don't know what they are missing...or in for!

Its -11C here today, and hasn't been above freezing since Dec 18th!!

best wishes and good luck to all getting the snow cleared!

Phil

[Septic Blue]

Pentagram – The 'Macnaghten-Five' Victims of 'Jack the Ripper' (Click to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2007
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2010

[Bob Hinton]

Shock horror "Five points form Pentagram"

Nice graphic from Septic Blue as always. However it does prove the point that virtually any distribution of five random points can be forced into a pentagram. I’m quite sure you could draw a much better pentagram by linking five pubs or five schools or five hospitals or five police stations. It doesn’t mean they are worshipping the devil – it just means there are five of them.

Can we please knock this ridiculous Cremers story into the long grass once and for all? As far as I recall Cremers never said she found bloodstained ties. What I believe she said was:

“Cremers had noticed a large black box in D'Onston's room, and one day, while the doctor was out, she looked inside the box. She found some books and also some black ties that had dried, dull stains at the back. She thought the stains might be blood.”

Thinking something might be blood is entirely different from it being blood. How would she know what the stains were unless she had them analysed? They could have been anything, sweat, paint, cocoa, coffee, tea and so on. But lets us just say for the sake of argument it was blood. How could blood get on a gentlemen’s tie in those days? Much the same as it gets on the back of your tie or collar nowadays, by cutting yourself shaving. Don’t forget the cutthroat razor is not so name because it is perfectly safe!

[Magpie]

Grave:

I feel like crawling into a grave after shoveling out there around 6 PM. All the places to put this stuff have been exhausted and we've got two more snowfalls coming next week. Over 6 feet so far in less than 5 weeks here.
Not gonna be easy to make work tomorrow...unless Nina shovels faster.

Luckily your storm blew itself out over the lakes, so we are green as green can be here at the moment. Wicked wind chill though.

[DaveMc]

On page 55. of "the collected works of Roslyn D'onston" theres a triangle called the "Victoria vitrix" the points are I,N,K and in the center is an H, can anyone tell me if this triangle can be matched by location of the C5 murders

I'm not sure how the Victoria Vitrix fits into the puzzle at all.

The best definition of "Vitrix" I can give is that it's an occultic "spiritual formula" that symbolizes a personality.
In this case, the personality of Victoria Woodhull Martin.

The "H" is the "High" of her spirit; her "godself".
"I" is "Illumination"
"N" is "Nature"
"K" is "Knowledge"

No doubt that Robert D'Onston Stephenson (aka Roslyn D'Onston - aka Tautriadelta) is using the Christian representation for The Godhead or The Trinity.

Compare:


The last thing an occultist would do is use the Victoria Vitrix to harm women.
One might say ESPECIALLY not harm prostitutes.

It also raises a warning about incidental anagrams which "NECKS" may be.

The needle on my skeptic meter is well into the red on this one.

[Mike Covell]

Also, I think the Cremers story even if 40 years old and after the fact; second hand info, about the bloody ties and D'onston drawing an upside down triangle on his door is very relevant. It shows how scared Cremers was of this man and how it impacted her to remembering details.

In "Crowley's Ripper: the collected work of Roslyn D'onston, not only does it talk about the bloody dress ties, it goes it great detail about D'onston's fascination with the black arts, how he electrocuted dogs, cats, and other animals; his initiation into black magic through Lord Lytton using a chalked- red- outline on the ground of a pentagram...ect, and no he wouldn't let anyone no of his mumbo jumbo.

Cremers was so scared she ran from the house and alerted the authorities....oh no! She stayed with Stephenson!

Crowley does not mention Stephenson electrocuted dogs! Thats a lie!

Here is the chapter from Aliester Crowley's Confessions, Chapter 71, pages 690-691.

At this time London was agog with the exploits of Jack the Ripper. One theory of the motive of the murderer was that he was performing an Operation to obtain the Supreme Black Magical Power. The seven women had to be killed so that their seven bodies formed a "Calvary cross of seven points" with its head to the west. The theory was that after killing the third or the fourth, I forget which, the murderer acquired the power of invisibility, and this was confirmed by the fact that in one case a policeman heard the shrieks of the dying woman and reached her before life was extinct, yet she lay in a cul-de-sac, with no possible exit save to the street; and the policeman saw no signs of the assassin, thought he was patrolling outside, expressly on the lookout.

Miss Collins' friend took great interest in these murders. He discussed them with her and Cremers on several occasions. He gave them imitations of how the murderer might have accomplished his task without arousing the suspicion of his victims until the last moment. Cremers objected that his escape must have been a risky matter, because of his habit of devouring certain portions of the ladies before leaving them. What about the blood on his collar and shirt? The lecturer demonstrated that any gentleman in evening dress had merely to turn up the collar of a light overcoat to conceal any traces of his supper.

Time passed! Mabel tired of her friend, but did not dare to get rid of him because he had a packet of compromising letters written by her. Cremers offered to steal these from him. In the man's bedroom was a tin uniform case which he kept under the bed to which he attached it by cords. Neither of the

{691}

women had ever seen this open and Cremers suspected that he kept these letters in it. She got him out of the way for a day by a forged telegram, entered the room, untied the cords and drew the box from under the bed. To her surprise it was very light, as if empty. She proceeded nevertheless to pick the lock and open it. There were no letters; there was nothing in the box, but seven white evening dress ties, all stiff and black with clotted blood!

Another version of the Confessions can be read on this site here,

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/collected-donston.8.html

These are the only two known instances where Crowley mentioned Stephenson and neither mention electrocting dogs.

[Ally]

Of course the policy of the hospital was set up in case patients desirous of leaving the hospital after hours asked to do so. If they wanted to leave, there was the matter of appealing to the House Governor. To what degree the departure of patients was in the construction of this regulationwas undoubtedly of lesser significance in the protocol's creation. Read the protocol Mike provided before. The protocol stipulates how those from within or without enter or leave the premises. Stephenson could ill afford, and he is but one example Ally, to lose his place in the Hospital if he was deemed sufficiently salubrious.
There's not only no reason to suggest Stephenson for wanting to leave the Ward, there's no reason to suggest that his complaint was not serious as the 134 day stay would warrant. Only the silly "faked neurasthenia" concept kept this nonsense alive as long as it did. Its over.

The other point within this issue that neither of us addressed was that had anyone wanted to leave the premises, how far from the front door does anyone think they'd let someone travel if they had asked to step outside ?

No the point of this is you build your anti-Donston case around things that you put forth as fact when they are nothing of the sort. Such as your reliance on the "faked neurasthenia" thing. First of all neurasthenia is a fake disease anyway. The symptoms for it are headaches and irritability. What the hell is that? He basically had PMS. There's no cure for it, there's no real treatment for it, so what was he doing in the hospital with it for 135 days anyway? You make the point over and over that doctors aren't going to allow malingerers to stay when they had real patients with such chronic conditions as TB floating about the place, but neurasthenia? The only treatment prescribed for it is rest and they gave up a hospital bed for someone to lie down for 135 days and no other treatment? Why wouldn't they have sent him home to rest?

You can't have it both ways. They obviously weren't kicking him out even though there was nothing they could do for him. So they were clearly not as rigid and strict in booting patients to make room for others. He was allowed to stay, despite there being no medical need for him to stay, which suggests his bed was secure for as long as he wanted it and he wouldn't have been risking it to stroll to the pub. Maybe that was part of his therapy even. To see if he would succumb to nervous exhaustion should he go out into the world on test runs.