Pentagram

[Garry Wroe]

There have been plenty of occult-inspired killings in recent history - at least two in Wales if memory serves me correctly. The one obvious example of a satanic serialist, however, is that of Richard Ramirez.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[corey123]

Hi david,

That case seems very interesting.

I might look further into it.

Do you know any good books about it? Any recomendations.

Gary, Ally,

I guess, if you are right, I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

Yours truly

[DVV]

Hi Corey,

the best up-to-date study is Jacques Heers, "Gilles de Rais", but perhaps not yet translated...

Then you have excellent books by several great French writers:

Georges Bataille : "Trial of Gilles de Rais" and "Dark Star : the satanic rites of Gilles de Rais".

Michel Tournier : "The Ogre" ; "Gilles and Jeanne"

And last but not least:

Joris Karl Huysmans : "Down there"

Amitiés,
David
"

[corey123]

David,

Thank you. I will look into them.

I am amazed at how extordinary this is. A serial killer who worked with Joan of Ark. Wow.

Thank you.

[DaveMc]

Hi Corey,

What about Gilles de Rais and his friend Prelati - to whom we alluded yesterday ?

Amitiés,
David

You're know more about him.
Was the satanic use of the children secondary to his sexual perversion or was the perversion part of the ritual?

[DVV]

David,

Thank you. I will look into them.

I am amazed at how extordinary this is. A serial killer who worked with Joan of Ark. Wow.

Thank you.

That was exactly the point that inspired writers such as Huysmans and Bataille... The saint and the devil, in short.

I suspect Tournier, who proved himself a bit too interested with young males (in his writings, I mean, cough cough..), has a slightly different understanding...But 'The Ogre" is still a great novel.

I really advice you to read "Down there"...the story is that of an historian who writes a book on Gilles de Rais...A masterpiece, with very good insights into Rais's mind.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

You're know more about him.
Was the satanic use of the children secondary to his sexual perversion or was the perversion part of the ritual?

Hi Dave,

Apparently, the murders were first intended as a sacrifice to please the Devil and obtain fortune.
Then, sexual perversion, really beyond one can imagine...
Dahmer seems a dove when compared to Gilles de Rais (or to Ersebet Bathory, btw)...
I re-read "Down there" almost every year, but there is one chapter I jump, now...Unfortunately, there are some sentences I can't forget.

Amitiés,
David

[Daniel Gillotti]

Pentagram

Dan,

As you are with this forum, I am with the Bad Astronomy message board. I rarely post but learn from reading.

From that experience I would suggest that you not develop a theory in a vacuum.

What you've done with this thread is a good step.
Not in presenting, but challenging your concept.
Nobody can ask all of the right questions on their own.
Not even Einstein could do that. He had to be challenged.

Other than the "five points" provided by the Canonical Five, not always were organs taken and I can't find any information to support the use of a kidney in a spiritual ritual.

That doesn't exclude the "NECKS" concept.
The women seemed to be comfortable with the man the were reported to be with.
It's possible that he knew them; that he had selected them as targets and made himself familiar to them.
The clips of conversation overheard with Stride and the ease with which he addressed Kelly mark a person who was either appropriately charming or familiar to the girls.

The killer very well could have used their names to choose out the five whose Sur-Initials spelled out a particular word.
We don't know.

Well, sorry. Let me speak for myself.
* I * don't know.

You can at least use this forum to narrow down one aspect of your idea.

DaveMc:

Hi, thanks for your post, your exactly right I said from the beginning I'm not forcing this on anyone. Like Tom said, I discovered it and presented it to this forum for better or worse it has gotten people thinking; knowing I'm going to take heat on this topic.

About your question regarding the woman; I believe the woman knew and felt comfortable with their killer, D'onston was known to be a regular customer and he had a very gentleman demeanor about himself.

From what I have learned so far is the killer practiced not only black magic he also was practicing Necromancy and cannibalism I think that might explain the missing kidney.

I was just brushing up on this reading from Aleister Crowley's: "The collected work of Roslyn D'onston", in it he talks about how Lord Edward Lytton initiated him into black magic and how lord Lytton made a Pentagram with red chalk on the ground and that Lytton was standing in the center of the pentagram before D'onston's initiation.

I believe, and this is what I have been working on; if the story about the 5 bloody white dress ties is true, then it is possible that it might be connected to the 5 points of the pentagram and the C5 murders.

I know Tom said it was a neat discovery and probably worthy of a fiction story; just give me a chance to connect the dots and well go from there.

On page 55. of "the collected works of Roslyn D'onston" theres a triangle called the "Victoria vitrix" the points are I,N,K and in the center is an H, can anyone tell me if this triangle can be matched by location of the C5 murders?

Thanks to all...Dan

[Ally]

Daniel was my question too technical or has the logic completely flummoxed you?

If you need me to repeat, I'll be happy to.

Why would a Satanist spell out necks which has no magical significance whatsoever? Why wouldn't he spell out a five letter word of power, such as death or blood or hey, the biggie Satan?

[cerburusuk]

Dan mate.
Don't be surprised by the attitude you find on this site. I have posted a few times, and with the exception of Rob Clark and one or two others, have either been ignored or told to "go somewhere else" (and yes I mean you Corry!)
This site seems to comprise of people who form little groups of friends who will discuss the most important points in finding The Ripper as was that a hand mirror under the bloody remains of Mary Kelly on the table by her body???? How is that going to catch Jack? It looks like an excuse to stare at a dead womans remains hour after hour "for a good reason"!
If you are not in the "in crowd" you are not in, Dan, old mate.
I have looked at The Ripper case for 30 years +, and, yes, my thoughts have made it into print. I'm the S.P.Day in Peter Underwood's book on the subject. So I think I know a little about the Whitechapel Murders. But, after 30 odd years, I know nothing that will help find the killer.
I find this site mostly populated by people who, seeing a post by a recognised writer on the subject (ie; Stewart Evans or so), will post and fawn about how they agree that there was 8, not 9 steps to Kelly's door from the entrance of Miller's Court or whatever!
If you want new people to come on this site and try to contribute to, what is, a 125 year old mystery - get some manners and get rid of the ignorent little turds (Yes, you again, Corey) who insult and belittle anyone who tries anything you do not agree with.
I, like Dan, won't waste my time on here again!

[corey123]

Hello,

When have I ever insulted you? What have I done or even talked to you? I don't remember us having a conversation, and if we did, I definantly didn't tell you to go somehwere else.

I am feel supprised that someone I have no relation with, nor have(as I can recall) ever spoken with come and insult ME out of nowhere.

Do you have a reason?

As for calling me an arrogent little turd I hope you know the meaning of manners.

Let me tell you now, if you don't want to waste your time on here acting like an ass, you can go somewhere else. No one is making you stay here.

[Hunter]

I don't understand.
Is that a joke that somehow uses the word 'their' instead of 'there' or do you come from a place where people don't speak English? (apart from the obvious fact that you are American )

Hi Doris,

It was intentionally misspelled; or "misspelt" where I come from. They're would be correct of course but since the original quote said utter and I was implying "udder" in relation to the other word, I misspelled it; as udder and tit would be the same thing in my neck of the woods- no pun intended.

Dan, its good to see you weathered the initial storm. ( that means you hung around despite the criticism)

[corey123]

Dan,

As I said, if you could clearify on the meaning of NECKS, I would appriciate it.

[Daniel Gillotti]

Pentagram

Daniel was my question too technical or has the logic completely flummoxed you?

If you need me to repeat, I'll be happy to.

Why would a Satanist spell out necks which has no magical significance whatsoever? Why wouldn't he spell out a five letter word of power, such as death or blood or hey, the biggie Satan?

Hi Alley:

I'm sorry, it was the idiotic theories comment that through me off I didn't realize you wanted me to answer your question.

I believe I have the reason for the NECKS, I'm currently working on that as I type this thread; at this time I decided not to disclose it until further research is done. However, I'll say this it is definitely intentional like an offering to Satan, Egbo, Ekpe...whatever? I'll let everyone know soon.

Thanks Dan...

[Daniel Gillotti]

Pentagram

Dan,

As I said, if you could clearify on the meaning of NECKS, I would appriciate it.

Corey:

Hi, To make a long story short, I believe the NECKS is some type of offering to Satan, Egbo, Ekpe. The 5 bloody Dress ties of D'onston if true are connected to the pentagram, NECKS, and the human offerings.

Also, Necks is used for something else and I'm working on that and will disclose it after further research.

Thanks, Dan...